Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Kinross · 06-12-2003, 05:43 AM

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham, December 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

auto-da-fe · 06-12-2003, 06:05 AM

Thank you Kinross for pointing out something I have been trying to do for some time. There is no difference in what the Democrats did and what Bush did, but all anyone wants to complain about is Bush. The irony of it all is that when they are complaining about Bush's hypocrisay and say nothing of the fact that there precious dem's said and did the exact same thing, therby being hypocritical themselves/

Tristan Scott · 06-12-2003, 06:20 AM

So, where are the lies?

How do you know that there had been, or for that matter still are are no weapons of mass destruction?

Are you saying that Saddam had no biological or chemical weapons? If you are, you are wrong, period.

Are you saying that he never had a nuclear weapons program? If so, you are wrong again.

Where are the lies?

auto-da-fe · 06-12-2003, 06:22 AM

My interpertaion on the op was that he was being slightly sarcastic, since everyone is saying how Bush lied about the WMD's I believe he was trying to point out that Bush said the exact same thing that the Dem's did, yet no one is complaining about the Dems.

Tristan Scott · 06-12-2003, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MegaDave
Thank you Kinross for pointing out something I have been trying to do for some time. There is no difference in what the Democrats did and what Bush did, but all anyone wants to complain about is Bush. The irony of it all is that when they are complaining about Bush's hypocrisay and say nothing of the fact that there precious dem's said and did the exact same thing, therby being hypocritical themselves/

Please, you want some cheese with that whine?

People are complaining about the President? What? You wanted President Bush to get a free ride like President Clinton had?

Tristan Scott · 06-12-2003, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MegaDave
My interpertaion on the op was that he was being slightly sarcastic, since everyone is saying how Bush lied about the WMD's I believe he was trying to point out that Bush said the exact same thing that the Dem's did, yet no one is complaining about the Dems.

Yeah, well I still hear most of the Dems saying that the weapons are there and will be found.

auto-da-fe · 06-12-2003, 06:28 AM

So what your saying is, it is okay to complain about what someone is doing, even though you yourself have done the very same thing? That is precisely what some have been doing. Jacque Chirac is a perfect example. From the list above, and other quotes attributed to him, it is clear that he though they had WMD's, yet he has been one of the most vocal against the war.

But hypocrisay should just be ignored though, lest I sound as if I am whining, huh?

Kinross · 06-12-2003, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MegaDave
My interpertaion on the op was that he was being slightly sarcastic, since everyone is saying how Bush lied about the WMD's I believe he was trying to point out that Bush said the exact same thing that the Dem's did, yet no one is complaining about the Dems.

That is my point exactly. Everybody drank the Kool-Aid.

Tristan Scott · 06-12-2003, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MegaDave
So what your saying is, it is okay to complain about what someone is doing, even though you yourself have done the very same thing?

Did I say that? Let me check......no, I didn't say that. Go ahead and put words in my mouth though, it's really ok.

Quote:

That is precisely what some have been doing. Jacque Chirac is a perfect example. From the list above, and other quotes attributed to him, it is clear that he though they had WMD's, yet he has been one of the most vocal against the war.

I believe Chirac felt Saddam could be contained and was squeemish about attacking a country that hasn't actually agressed on anyone first.

seanie · 06-12-2003, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MegaDave
So what your saying is, it is okay to complain about what someone is doing, even though you yourself have done the very same thing? That is precisely what some have been doing. Jacque Chirac is a perfect example. From the list above, and other quotes attributed to him, it is clear that he though they had WMD's, yet he has been one of the most vocal against the war.

But hypocrisay should just be ignored though, lest I sound as if I am whining, huh?

Well let's take a look at that quote.

Quote:

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"may lead to think that"

Not exactly a ringing endorsment that Iraq had WMD's.

He's saying there are concerns that need addressed and that inspections are they way to go about them for now.

I'm at a loss to see how that translates into hypocrisy.

06-12-2003, 05:43 AM	#1
Kinross Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: . Posts: 1,281	Democrats lied about WMD "We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998 "Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998 "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002 "What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002 "The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998 "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002 "I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003 "Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998 "I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002 "Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002 "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham, December 2002 "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002 "As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998 "Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

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06-12-2003, 06:05 AM	#2
auto-da-fe Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: edge of insanity Posts: 1,609	Thank you Kinross for pointing out something I have been trying to do for some time. There is no difference in what the Democrats did and what Bush did, but all anyone wants to complain about is Bush. The irony of it all is that when they are complaining about Bush's hypocrisay and say nothing of the fact that there precious dem's said and did the exact same thing, therby being hypocritical themselves/

06-12-2003, 06:20 AM	#3
Tristan Scott Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southwest USA Posts: 4,093	So, where are the lies? How do you know that there had been, or for that matter still are are no weapons of mass destruction? Are you saying that Saddam had no biological or chemical weapons? If you are, you are wrong, period. Are you saying that he never had a nuclear weapons program? If so, you are wrong again. Where are the lies?

06-12-2003, 06:22 AM	#4
auto-da-fe Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: edge of insanity Posts: 1,609	My interpertaion on the op was that he was being slightly sarcastic, since everyone is saying how Bush lied about the WMD's I believe he was trying to point out that Bush said the exact same thing that the Dem's did, yet no one is complaining about the Dems.

06-12-2003, 06:28 AM	#7
auto-da-fe Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: edge of insanity Posts: 1,609	So what your saying is, it is okay to complain about what someone is doing, even though you yourself have done the very same thing? That is precisely what some have been doing. Jacque Chirac is a perfect example. From the list above, and other quotes attributed to him, it is clear that he though they had WMD's, yet he has been one of the most vocal against the war. But hypocrisay should just be ignored though, lest I sound as if I am whining, huh?

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