Daggah

Ah yes, let's just re-define any word in the english language whenever convenient. After all, sticking to what the dictionary says is just being dogmatic.

I'm sorry Helen, I respect you and all, but what you're saying here is just ridiculous.

Infidelettante

In Bible College we were told that the word religion came from the latin words 're' and 'ligio' meaning 'to bind back.' They didn't offer to teach us Latin so I don't know if that is true or not. Anyone?

The point of it was that religion binds you to the world of sin. That's why they say Christianity is not a religion. It frees you from the world of sin and damnation. Even then I thought it odd that they didn't use it in the sense of Christ 'reconnecting' us to God. I think it was more important to set Christianity apart from the other religions of the world.

IIRC in Rome religion did have the aspect of connecting one to his society and culture so the idea of it meaning to bind back may not be far off but, as always, the fundies warp it to their own use.

JT

HelenM

Yes, that's basically it.

Part of the problem is that the teaching about other belief systems can be rather simplistic and not exactly what an adherent of that other belief system would say. I've run into this with Catholics online, who say that Protestants don't 'understand' what they believe. And there seems to be some truth in that.

It sounds like they are not good listeners.

Helen

HelenM

Ok, let's see what Merriam-Webster says:

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
- re·li·gion·less adjective

Christians focus on 2b) - which is one of the dictionary definitions of religion - and point out that a personal relationship with Jesus is at the heart of their faith, not an 'instituionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs and practices'.

I think that's legitimate, but I think they could go about making that distinction in a less confusing way; I think they deliberately say "it's not a religion" because it will surprise non-Christians and hopefully make them curious. But I don't approve of that way of trying to get one's point across - I like explanations to be as direct and clear as possible - I don't like manipulative techniques to 'hook' someone's interest (I like people to be excellent communicators but that's different from using 'techniques' like this one)

Helen

I ate Pascal's Wafer

Yeah, that makes sense. It reminds me of 1984, in a way. The goal of Newspeak is to lump any ideas opposing Ingsoc into a few words which are considered bad. In doing this, the possibility of discussing the opposing issues is limited.

By lumping opposing beliefs under "religion", and by convincing the believer that religion is "man's way of working up to God" and that there is no need to study the ways of the world, they are able to limit what the believer is willing to learn, and thus limit the chances that the believer will leave for want of a better option.

LOL. That's the understatement of the century.

Hmm, this could very well be true. Even if the non-Christian disagrees with them, at least they drew the non-Christian into a discussion. This would give the Christian a chance to "plant a seed". It's still a tricky witnessing tool, but it does explain a lot.

-Nick