yguy

All I'm asking for from him is a direct answer to the question I posted above and in his thread. So far, he has politely flipped me off.

Sure, I could have done a lot of things. What's wrong with what I DID?

Really? You don't think the presence of NAMBLA at a "gay" pride parade is a problem for homosexuals?

Seems to me it's the job of those who value the credibility of the "gay" rights movement. Why the hell should I help you if you won't lift a finger to help yourselves?

Whenever I've seen any of that crowd show up on a board, I've ripped them a new one - so I'm not asking you guys to do anything I wouldn't do.

trunks2k

*SCREAMS* Ok let's try this again very slowly.

1. You SPECIFICALLY want homosexual rights advocates to draw a line between themselves and advocates of pedophelia.

2. By asking this, you are directly implying, whether you meant to or not, that by default homosexual rights advocates are also pedophelia advocates.

3. Homosexual rights advocates find this offensive because the two subjects have absolutely nothing to do with eachother.

As for your Jerry Falwell comment, yes we would expect you to say something. Simply because Jerry Falwell is a specific person with specific ideals that you are following. By supporting Jerry Fallwell, you are agreeing with his ideas. Thus if he says something it can be implied that you are likely to agree unless you say otherwise.

Being an advocate for homosexual rights is extremely different. There is not one person or group that defines what it is to be an advocate of homosexual rights. Being an advocate of homosexual rights, means nothing more than being an advocate of homosexual rights and to infer anything else from that (i.e. being an advocate of pedophelia) is simply insulting.

You mentioned the parade in New York that apparantly had a NAMBLA float in it. This is a different case from being a homosexual rights advocate. This is a case os supporting a specific organization (in this case the group that organized the parade). If a person supported the organization, and the organization had a NAMBLA float be in the parade, then it can be more directly inferred that the person also supported NAMBLA uless said otherwise.

Your problem is you are refusing to seperate an idea (i.e. homosexual rights) with the actions of a specific person/group (i.e. Fr. Andrew's statement / Parade in New York). Your argument is no different than this (whether you meant it to be like this or not):

1. Given: Fr. Andrew is a homosexual rights advocate.
2. Given: Fr. Andrew likes anchovies on his pizza
3. Deduction: Since Andrew likes anchovies on his pizza, all homosexual rights advocates MUST like anchovies on their pizza unless said otherwise.

yguy

Content to live with a little bit of cancer, are you?

Viti

Why do you insist on putting the word gay in quotes?

Bree

If this is between you and Fr. Andrew, then why didn't you take it to PM? Or email? Or Formal Debate & Discussion? Besides, it's the pot-kettle-black thing again: people have asked you questions and you have politely (and not so politely) flipped them off as well, so to speak.

There's nothing wrong with what you did. I'm just curious as to why you are so interested in this topic (and in one particular poster) and yet refuse to seek out the answers to the questions that you have. You seem to be perfectly happy to maintain the status quo, the position that you currently hold - so why continue to ask questions? Why this thread?

Nope - I don't think it's a problem at all. I could care less what other homosexuals are doing. I don't go to pride parades, much less care who (or what) is marching in them. You see, contrary to popular belief, homsexuals are normal everyday human beings. There are some of us who are less obsessed with who is screwing who or what, where or when and more obsessed with potty-training our dogs, re-wallpapering our kitchens, and washing our cars every Saturday evening. You know, normal people stuff. I don't see heterosexuals being overly concerned about what other heterosexuals are doing.

I would love to branch this discussion out and see how many homosexuals (or "homosexual advocates") really care about the credibility of the gay rights movement. Like I said earlier, 99.99% of the gays and lesbians I know are more worried about their everyday, plain-ol'-boring lives than what's going on in San Francisco. And what makes you think that homosexuals aren't "helping themselves" just because they refuse to band together and publicly decry a fringe movement? The same could be said about heterosexuals, and a lot of fringe movements among the heterosexual community, couldn't it?

Personally, I think that homosexuals are "helping themselves" more by just being themselves, period. It's strange, but people seem to remember the NAMBLA floats and S&M leather gear in these pride parades and forget about the boring moms pushing strollers at the end of them. Maybe that's because they don't look so good on TV, eh?

Viti

I recall another poster asserting that NAMBLA was attending the Godless March as well...yet nobody remembers seeing them there or at any of the Pride Parades they have watched. IT seems silly to rail against something that nobody has personally witnessed happening

yguy

No, that is an improper inference drawn by you.

If they find it offensive, the remedy is to draw a clear line between themselves and pedophilia at every opportunity.

That's just swell in theory, but there are no advocates of homosexual rights who are JUST advocates of homosexual rights. Many of them are advocates of other forms of sexual license, for instance. A very few are adovcates of pedophilia. You guys need to cut that bastard child off without a red cent. Immediately. What's stopping you?

If you mean to say that the organizers of the parade are not empowering NAMBLA in some degree by allowing them in the parade, you delude yourself.

How is this "difference" of any moment whatever, since the parade organizers are merely a local manifestation of the movement as a whole?

If this contradicts anything I've said, I don't see how.

On the contrary, I am perfectly willing to separate advocacy of homosexual rights from advocacy of pedophilia. I only ask that homosexuals do the same in no uncertain terms. It is the Fr. Andrews of the world who are your enemy, not me.

It's nothing like that. You have to MAKE it like that to find fault with it.

contracycle

Tell me yguy, have you stopped beating your wife?

yguy

No, you will let him NOT respond to that. My gnats you will tirelessly strain out, but his camels you will swallow uncomplaining.

Abacus

But they shouldn't have to, since they were never associated with it in the first place. Except in the minds of homophobes. And the only thing those people deserve is a big, fat, middle finger.