AmericanHeretic

Oh yes, profoundly, poignantly, and with all the hope my atheist heart can muster, I am satisfied by this!

Christianity, especially, contains moral absolutes that are, by stated nature, above questioning. One simply obeys. The Ten Commandments comes to mind, but also, so does Leviticus 18:22 through 18:30 where hatred of gays is taught.
Moral absolutes, in this special, divinely inspired unquestionable sense preclude any and all moral reasoning by the practitioners.

Mere preference....yes, I'd rather the Bible was obliterated from history and only this infinitely variable "mere preference" was left. Then, everyone would have to reason out their own morals, as I do, think critically, and make up ethical propositions that function and earn respect from others. Do Christian, Biblical morals do this?

The Bible says be humble, but a Christian thinking he or she is loved by God and going to Heaven and all the rest of us will suffer eternally is hardly being humble. No wonder they by and large act holier than thou. The Bible says not to kill, but it's packed with millions of murders. The waters of Biblical ethics are muddy indeed. Jesus brings peace and love, no, the Bible also says he brings a sword, which I take to mean warfare. The Bible says love one another, but also to hate your own family members. It's insanity.....you can kill and rape and take slaves and fully Biblically moral. That is simply not morality.

No, instead, I say reason for yourself. No rules, no formal Authority of Wrong and Right, no Ultimacy. Reason is adaptive, freeform, relative, situational, and humanistic. I would place my own personal ethics up for comparison to any Christian set of moral principles any day and come away proud of myself. My ethics speak to who I am, the same also with Mother Theresa, or criminals, the same with Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker and Oral Roberts and all those child molesting priests. Your ethics define you. When you look outside for what must be created inside, calamity ensues, like the Inquisition, or like Jerry Falwell claiming the 9/11 atrocity was God's just punishment on America for tolerating gays.

Think for yourself, compare ethical principles, determine right and wrong for yourself, do NOT use a contradictory fable collection that claims murder is bad on one page and sacred on the next!

Thus, the alternative of nothing, or "mere preference", compared to the Bible, is a great leap forward for humanity. I hope to hasten it's coming.

Bill Snedden

If this is true, is there any reason to believe that the "morality" that comes from your god is anything more than his "mere preference?" What reason do we have to care what he prefers other than the fact that he's bigger and stronger than we are?

Regards,

Bill Snedden

HRG

Not at all. As soon as I define "good" (or humanity defines "good" by using this word consistently), the idea exists. A god is as unnecessary for establishing a standard of good as for establishing the rules of chess.

A thing is an elephant if we call it an elephant. A thing is yellow if we call it yellow. An action is good if we call it good.

"Man is the measure of all things" (Protagoras)
Why not ? You are satisfied with a mere preference by X, aren't you ? It just happens that X is your god.

Regards,
HRG.

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

HRG,
Note: 'the idea exists'...nothing more. In the same way my defining 'invisible pink unicorn' doesn't cause an 'invisible pink unicorn' to exist...just the idea.

Note: the rules of chess are completely arbitrary. We could have confined a Rooks movement to only 2 consecutive squares or dictate that Knights move 3 squares forward then one square aside.

The 'rules of Chess' don't objectively exist...they can be changed at our whim (and do when we get bored).


Then I call 'good' raping, pillaging and stealing. You can't say my definition is wrong, moreover you can't even say my actions are immoral.



Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Bill,
You may have missed something here Bill...

If God exists then God is the moral standard. It's not that He just chooses a rule out of thin air...He is the rule.


Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Alludium Fozdex

Perhaps not, but you had better be damned sure you have a bigger stick than whoever disagrees with you...

Silent Dave

True or false: Genocide is wrong, and would remain so even if God said it was right.


Dave

Theli

What is your definition?
In any case, the only way to "prove" a moral right or wrong is to establish a definition of the word morality. Any other attempt would be an apeal to authority or popularity.

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Gerald,
Couldn't have said this better myself.

Morality reduces to nothing more than the preferences of the guy with the biggest stick....

which...is...not...morality.



Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Silent Dave,
Blue.


Your hypothetical question is non-sensical. It could never arise. God would never proclaim to man 'genocide is good'.



Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas