Jayman

I agree. I'm sorry if I came off as an inerrantist.

I've been thinking alot over the relationship between the Son and Father lately. I'm not sure of their exact relationship and so I'm not sure that Jesus knew everything during his earthly life. So I think the issue is debatable.

Agree.

CX

No long post required. A simple reference will do. Looking at NA27 I see nothing remotely ambiguous about hH GENEA AUTH (this generation). Furthermore I cannot even think of anything ambiguous about the word AUTH. Generally there is some ambiguity as regards the absence or position of the article (hH), but this does not apply here.

offa

offa, there is one word common, "all". ALL is exclusive. ALL is a sect. Jesus was born into the sect of the ALL and tranferred to the sect of the MANY (on his own accord) and thus became illegitimate. ALL does not mean everybody. When reading Matthew he says "ALL the shores there-of" when, geographically spreaking, there are no shores in Bethlehem. ALL THE SHORES become the shores of the Dead Sea and Qumran. This territory belonged to the sect of the ALL.

ishalon

oh... well, care to talk about the other verses now?

Jayman

I'm sorry I don't have the time. IMO, the issue is extrememly complicated and would take some time to complete. Sorry to disappoint.

NOGO

You don't need to know greek to figure what is being said here. There are many indications which tell you that Jesus was talking about his generation.

Here is one

Matthew 24:21
"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

Note the word "now" as in "until now".

This is called writers perspective.
When someone is writting or quoting from somebody else's point of view he/she sometimes forgets and switches to his own point of view.

Matthew has done just that in Mt24:21

If Jesus had said this sentence he would have said it this way.

Matthew 24:21 (error modified)
"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until then, nor ever will.

I have corrected just one word. I changed "now" to "then"

The tribulations in question in this sentence are obviously in the future from the speaker's point of view. That is Jesus's point of view.

Let me analyze the actual text as it appears in Mt24:21
The sentence does start well enough with "For then ..." indicating future but then switches to the present with "until now".
"Now" can only mean the time this sentence was written but clearly the event in question has not happened according to believers.
"nor ever will" excludes the possibility of it appening after the "now" ie after this sentence was written.
So the conclusion is that the writer of this sentence believed that he was living the tribulations in question as he was writting.

Put another way.
There is no way Matthew could have made this error if it was clear in his mind that the tribulations in question would not occur for a very long time to come.

This is just one element which point to the position which CX has stated quite succinctly.

NOGO

Nonsense.

Matthew 24:33:34
so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Who is "you" in Matthew 24:33 ? The disciples!
They were to "see all these things"

Matthew 24:36
"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

So Jesus put a very clear time frame to the events in question but the exact day and hour he did not know.
It cannot be clearer than that.

When the Stanley Cup finals start I can say this
The hockey season will end soon, before the end of June, but the day and hour I do not know.

Note that first a general time frame is given "before the end of June" and then comes the comment about the more precise information of the day and hour.

This is exactly as in Matthew 24.
First is the general time frame "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."
then
comes the comment about the more precise time "But of that day and hour no one knows"


If I ask
when will the war in Afghanistan end?
nobody will say "It will end but the day and hour noone knows"
in order to mean "I don't know"