Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Stephen T-B · 01-17-2003, 07:47 AM

Blondegoddess wrote:..." I never truly felt His love."
I didn't feel it either, BG. I didn't feel any of the things which other Christians did, except for a brief period after my confirmation (I was 13/14) when the words in our Church of England Holy Communion Service gave me a sense of repose. But it didn't last very long and quite soon I was putting a lot of time and effort into my Faith, and getting nothing whatsoever back in return - unlike my parents and all our family friends and most of my relatives. God / Jesus / Church or whatever seemed to be doing a whole lot for them, and nothing for me, and when I at last specifically asked for something - as you did - I still got nothing.
It�s as though I�d been surrounded by people eating an imaginary meal; they were putting forkfulls of nothing in their mouths and exclaiming �Wow! Delicious!�
I�d put a forkfull of nothing in my mouth and think: �I don�t understand this. There�s just nothing there.� But I couldn�t say that, not when I was surrounded by people all munching away and licking their lips and rubbing their tummies because they were having such a good meal.
What I think now is that they really were being satisfied by something - but whatever it was, I couldn�t share it. No matter how hard I tried.

Stephen T-B · 01-17-2003, 07:55 AM

Rad - how do you know if your heart is "right'?

And one more thing:
Do you "believe" there's a God, or do you "know" there's a God.

jj · 01-21-2003, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
I did not use the phrase "state of mind." I consider the mind and the heart to be strangers in most people. Thus it is that people make all sorts of declarations about how they will not do this or that (like fall in love with such and such a person) and do it anyway.

The heart pumps blood. The mind is the result of chemical reactions in the head.

Why am I not surprised that they are about 2 feet apart?

01-21-2003, 09:45 PM

There is another dimension to be added here because we did not create our own soul and our soul is really the place wherein we are the continuity of God and therefore predetermined. In our conscious mind we are free to chose and can believe or not believe without many consequences either way. This same is not true in our soul nature wherein we are eternal and can have eternal life.

It is in our soul nature that we carry the "sins of our fathers" (and mothers) and therefore also the "virtues of our fathers" and these are the ones that cause the turmoil in our own mind. Since our soul nature is much larger and more voluminous than our "blank slate" conscious nature (only 20% is conscious mind), its effect upon our freedom will increase as we get older.

rdalin · 01-22-2003, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shadowy Man
That's why I used the word "shaped". However, I do think that they are shaped by things we consciously do, though not necessarily so directly.

You can come to believe or disbelieve something by consciously thinking about. By actively educating yourself on a subject, and running the rigors of the reason through your head you can shape your beliefs.

I used the comparison to 'taste' because of the way people say things like "acquired taste".

I think what you are saying, and I would agree with you, is that you just can't say "I choose to believe X now" and all of a sudden you believe X.

People tell me that if I work at it I could acquire a taste for beer, though at the moment I don't like the taste at all. I can't wake up one morning and say "I like the taste of beer" and expect to like it when I drink it next. I don't fully agree that I could acquire the taste for it, but some people claim that they have.

As a non-drinker, I accept that I could probably acquire a taste for beer if I worked at it. As a life-long atheist, however, I have no idea how I would go about acquiring a belief in a deity. To the contrary, all of my reading and debating has only strengthened my atheism. For me, therefore, it is effectively impossible to honestly believe in a supernatural deity.

Richard

01-21-2003, 09:45 PM	#14
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Action vs Belief There is another dimension to be added here because we did not create our own soul and our soul is really the place wherein we are the continuity of God and therefore predetermined. In our conscious mind we are free to chose and can believe or not believe without many consequences either way. This same is not true in our soul nature wherein we are eternal and can have eternal life. It is in our soul nature that we carry the "sins of our fathers" (and mothers) and therefore also the "virtues of our fathers" and these are the ones that cause the turmoil in our own mind. Since our soul nature is much larger and more voluminous than our "blank slate" conscious nature (only 20% is conscious mind), its effect upon our freedom will increase as we get older.

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01-17-2003, 07:47 AM	#11
Stephen T-B Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 5,878	Blondegoddess wrote:..." I never truly felt His love." I didn't feel it either, BG. I didn't feel any of the things which other Christians did, except for a brief period after my confirmation (I was 13/14) when the words in our Church of England Holy Communion Service gave me a sense of repose. But it didn't last very long and quite soon I was putting a lot of time and effort into my Faith, and getting nothing whatsoever back in return - unlike my parents and all our family friends and most of my relatives. God / Jesus / Church or whatever seemed to be doing a whole lot for them, and nothing for me, and when I at last specifically asked for something - as you did - I still got nothing. It�s as though I�d been surrounded by people eating an imaginary meal; they were putting forkfulls of nothing in their mouths and exclaiming �Wow! Delicious!� I�d put a forkfull of nothing in my mouth and think: �I don�t understand this. There�s just nothing there.� But I couldn�t say that, not when I was surrounded by people all munching away and licking their lips and rubbing their tummies because they were having such a good meal. What I think now is that they really were being satisfied by something - but whatever it was, I couldn�t share it. No matter how hard I tried.

01-17-2003, 07:55 AM	#12
Stephen T-B Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 5,878	Rad - how do you know if your heart is "right'? And one more thing: Do you "believe" there's a God, or do you "know" there's a God.

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