winstonjen

It's the concept of your deity that we love to hate.

Magus55

So much for tolerance. I'm glad the U.S is predominately Christian. Because Atheists running it would be no better.

Family Man

Folks, please, take the stuff not related to how passages are interpreted figuratively somewhere else.

winstonjen

Why? Would abortion/rape be more widespread? Notice that we don't hate YOU, we hate your DEPICTION of god. Unless you ARE that depiction.

Family Man, sorry.

On topic, I think that Xians adjust their worldview to suit the bible, and sometimes alter their interpretations to suit their worldview. Just look at Magus' justifications for genocide. Hitler couldn't think of a better excuse.

Family Man

'SAlright. Just trying to keep the thread from being derailed. Magus is good at that.

That's precisely why they label a passage figurative when what they really mean is that the passage is wrong. All of the passages presented to BGIC indicates a place of eternal fire and torment, even if interpreted figuratively. There is no alternative interpretation, and BGIC doesn't even try to provide one. But he can't bring himself to call it wrong, for this is the bible he's talking about. He's simply using the term figurative as a way to avoid saying something in the bible is incorrect.

It's an inexcusable abuse of the word figurative.

Cross Examiner

Family Man,

No, that is my point. Your fisherman clearly does not make fish "tremble" upon "hearing" his name. Neither do I understand hell being physical torture, which was Jinto's main point--fallaciously using the traditional Aramaic symbols (e.g. fire) for the judgment of God as literal English elements. What is hell? Irrespective of the symbols used to paint a picture about it, it is clearly an utter separation of the individual from God, goodness, and others. Is it bad? Yes. Is it a cosmic torture chamber? No. Comprenez-ca?

Regards,
BGic

Oh, and stop beating on Magus55, he is right about many atheists hating the concept of the Judeo-Christian God. Jinto said as much to me in the thread that spawned this one. That also wasn't the first instance that I've heard such things.

Secular Pinoy

Not a place of cosmic torture?

Matt 13:41-42, 49-50:
41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers,
42 and they will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous
50 and throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Nonphysical?

Matt 10:28
28 Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

(Note that there are phycisal bodies in hell)

B. H. Manners

"This entire board is a rebellion against God, whether you realize it or not. You have nothing better to do than argue with Christians over a being you claim to be fake, and then you just insult and ridicule the Christians with sarcasm. You can't even see that you are fulfilling the claims in the Bible as we speak. The more time i spend on this board, the more I realize the wisdom and claims of the Bible are right."


How can I rebel against a being that has not proven his authority over me? Yes, you CLAIM he has authority and supposedly HE says he does via the Bible, but asserting is not proving.


Prove "God" has authority over man using an absolute objective moral standard.


By "absolute" I mean to be unchallengable, either physically or mentally. By objective I mean "seperate from the mind and not relying on it for existence" , in other words I want a moral standard that cannot be challenged even mentally and that exists seperate from the opinions of men, God, devils, angels, aliens, ect. It is a moral standard that exists in a vacuum but is binding on all things that exist.

Cross Examiner

Secular Pinoy,
Not at all. Check out this more informed analysis. As does the author, I hold to the "traditionalist" view on hell--being the most naturally deduced from the data we do have.

It's a long article and you may want to skip to: "So, we are left with those that experience what the Christian tradition calls 'Hell'..." and read from there on. Miller also references your chapters in Matthew as well.

Regards,
BGic

Jinto

Family Man, thank you for pointing out what so few people seem to get. Regrettably, as you predicted, it seems to have flown right by them.

Some points:

No. A rebellion against God requires a God. Now, if you will simply supply us with a God, we shall be most happy to commence rebelling against it.

Fallaciously? I'm not the one who cries out "It's figurative" and then proceed to completely ignore what the text actually says. What you're doing is analogous to taking "fish tremble when they hear my name" and "interpreting" it as "fish are in awe of you." Which is bullshit.

Coward. You ran from the other thread when you realized that I had proven my point. And even now, where others ask you to stand up and support your point, you hide behind the work of other apologists, and refuse to stand up for your own arguments. You listen to authority figures and expect us to believe those interpretations just because you can link to a site that says so. If you have any real courage, BGiC, then present your support for these interpretations in your own words, right here, right now. Better yet, why don't you return to the thread that you ran away from and try actually responding to my points instead of ignoring them. But I know you won't do this. Why? Becuase you're a coward. You're too afraid to actually argue your viewpoint yourself because you might find out that it is wrong. You're too afraid to argue it yourself because you KNOW you can't support it without your argument from authority. And because of this fear, you're never going to stick around for more than five seconds in a thread once you know that you've been beaten.

Go ahead. Prove me wrong.