Autonemesis

It is a refusal to accept the positive assertion that deities exist.

Peddler says: "Hey buddy, wanna by this watch?"
You say: "No thanks."

You then become an a-watchist. A-theism is the same way: we ain't buyin' what you're sellin'. If you want to call that denial, then go right ahead. I call it spending my intellectual capital wisely. Would you consider someone wise who bought anything that was offered to him, at whatever price was asked, regardless of its merits or value?

Selsaral

No, but you'll notice many atheists are scientists, and science helps explain reality.

Keith

You seem to be making my point. So, I must ask...why do most civilizations teach their children religion? Isn't it because belief in dieties is completely natural for us humans?

Keith

Keith

I agree. That's what initially convinced me that Christianity is true. Its historical detail, its complexity, its ability to provide the preconditions for intelligible thought, and on and on...

To imagine that Christianity is a human contrivance and a flawlessly designed conspiracy strains credibility just a wee bit!

Keith

Keith

No. But I don't view Christianity as something offered at a price that is excessive relative to its merits.

Keith

John Page

... but isn't this type of argumentation playing into the hands of creationists? Life occurred, therefore.....

IMO (the idea of) god can be explained away as a phenomenon that can help coherence in evolving civilizations and help stabilize moral standards that are beneficial to a group. This also provides a possible reason for nascent "god circuitry" in the brain - we would need this sense of god to better participate in society. This is where I think Julian Jaynes (se thread on his book here )was right on the mark.

Cheers, John

PandaJoe

I think we should first ask if it matters at all if atheism explains anything. I'm not aware of any rule that requires atheism to explain the mysteries of the universe to be true.

Not really, since if you accept Christianity, you must imagine that all other religions are just as you describe.

PandaJoe

I think the idea of a god existed in early societies as a need for an ultimate giver of laws. I think we can face the fact that without some sort of rules (and the punishment that goes along with breaking said rules), society cannot function. We have enough of a problem with rules in place, imagine if there weren't any. The idea of laws being placed by men wasn't enough, so the idea of an Ultimate Lawgiver, with an Ultimate Punishment, was needed to keep people inline. Unfortunately, people are generally moral or immoral, regardless of their beleif in any deity.

Philosoft

You'll have to explain how you get from 'deism is plausibly self-generating' to 'Christianity is true.' In any case, I am absolutely not impressed by presuppositionalism. We have had some extensive presup threads here in the recent past and at no point did it seem to rise above the level of ad hoc rationalization.
Really? A couple of confusing, confounding and contradictory texts and two thousand years of apologetics are "flawlessly designed"? Are you a Biblical inerrantist? Need I remind you that Christianity is still a minority religion in the world?

Bill Snedden

Please. Not this tired old horse again...

I would say that Christianity is eminently explicable as a sociological phenomena (i.e., a human contrivance). Actually suggesting that it is "flawlessly designed" is, in fact, what strains credibility...

To keep this on topic, atheism is not an attempt to explain anything. For that matter, neither is theism simpliciter. For that, one needs a worldview, of which either atheism or theism may be a component.

Regards,

Bill Snedden

P.S. Damn! Crosspost with Philosoft!