sullster

I know I am plowing in well-tilled land here, but I recently heard the story by an ex-Mafia wiseguy on a local NPR station.

This mob slime related how he got involved in organized crime and did all kinds of things including murder. Hey, I like "The Sopranos" on HBO, so far it was good listening. Then, here comes the end of the story.

The wiseguy cretin says that he is "bornagain" and "found christ". He is "saved" now and in the lord's hands. Now, I wanted to puke. I am sure he feels that he will go to heaven with his jeebus at his side, no worry about all that crime stuff.

Suddenly, christian morality is exposed for the sham that it is. A guy like me, will go to hell because of the "crime" of non-belief, while this murdering Mafia peice of excrement will go to heaven because of his belief.

What claim does Christianity have to be a coherent system of morality, when non-belief is considered a higher crime than killing a fellow human? Such a system of morality is deeply flawed and not worthy of support.

Silent Acorns

The traditional (I think it originates with Augustine) christian response to this line of thinking is that the atheist commits his crime against an infite being, while the murderer commits his crime against a finite being. They then claim that a crime against an infite being is infitely worse than a crime against a finite being.

IMO, it's a pretty lame argument since an infinte being should be infitely more capable of handling the crime. The idea that a god can be wounded simply by my lack of belief in him is silly. Still, it's the best argument I've heard, and it's superior to the "The Bible says ..." line.

sullster

Silent Acorns,

Thus by this line of thought, the non-belief in the "infinite being", which causes no one harm, is a crime punishable by eternal pain, while the murder of a person, which stops a person's life and harms all who know that person, is of no consequence after a declaration of belief in said ,"infinite being".

That this passes for a moral system worthy of emulation and respect is outrageous. The system gives murderers consolation while wishing pain on non-believers who have not murdered.

Could Heinrich Himmler or Joseph Stalin get to heaven if they were "bornagain"? According to the dominant system of morality in the West, the answer seems to be "yes". The victims of these human vermin, could be in eternal pain, because of non-belief, while Himmler and Stalin float around in bliss with good old Mr. infinite.

What a moral sham christianity is. Nihilism actually. A danger to civilization.

Silent Acorns

Just remember that if the christian god exists someone (i.e. god) is (supposedly) harmed by the "crime" of non-belief, and what is lost by the murder victims is trivial relative to their eternal destiny in heaven. So to many christians, murder is minor next to non-belief; "true" belief tramps all sins.

That's one of the beauties of christian theistic thought, you can justify almost anything as moral.

sullster

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Silent Acorns
Just remember that if the christian god exists someone (i.e. god) is (supposedly) harmed by the "crime" of non-belief, and what is lost by the murder victims is trivial relative to their eternal destiny in heaven. So to many christians, murder is minor next to non-belief; "true" belief tramps all sins.

That's one of the beauties of christian theistic thought, you can justify almost anything as moral. [/QUOTE



Thus the christians worship a god who feels angered by non-belief in him to such a degree that horrific killings are "trivial".

Christianity's claim to be a moral foundation of civilization is a sham. Murder is something that any organized society must try to prevent and punish. Society is not helped in this task when the dominant religion promulgates a god who finds murder "trivial", as compared to being believed in.

The underpinings of christian morality are disruptive to society and actually comfort criminals.

"True belief trumps all sins", is a blueprint for a nihilistic society. The religious killings of the past centuries in Europe are explained away by such a doctrine.

Vandrare

its the ultimate scapegoat!!! do what you want in life, just make sure you find god before you die.

this ganster goes to heaven, and meanwhile ghandi roasts for eternity.... perhaps it would be better to go to hell with such people rather than heaven with the gansters anyway

Odemus

All acts of kindness and hatred are equally meaningless. Athiest morality is far better and much more consistent right?

Silent Acorns

In atheist "morals" the meaning of kindness and hatred is limited to their impact on other people. Kindness and hatred directed at an individual still has meaning to that individual, it doesn't become "meaningless" just because there is no grand overseer to judge.

Odemus

Yes it does, and if you are objective, you will be intellectually honest enough to admit it.

sullster

A typical example of theistic defence of christian non-morality. Just claim atheists are nihilists. Name calling, with no argument.

Atheists deal only with the real world and thus expect no punishment or reward in some imaginary world. Without that other-world and the angry pissy god in it, atheists have to think about how to make the real world the best they can. Thus, murder is not something that can be over-looked by saying it is negated by belief in never-never land.

An atheist wants that Mob guy to feel bad about his actions, rot in jail and never be consoled. You theists want to comfort the slime ball with a promise of foregiveness by your pissy god.

That is a repugnant moral system. Be gone with it.