excreationist

Speaking of Kevin Langdon, there's a <a href="http://ii-f.ws/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00005341" target="_blank">new member</a> that goes by the same name...

Kevin Langdon

Plool wrote:

&gt; I did find what appears to be somewhat of a
&gt; debate between this man and a Kevin Langdon.

&gt; <a href="http://www.polymath-systems.com/intel/" target="_blank">http://www.polymath-systems.com/intel/</a>
&gt; hiqsocs/megasoc/noes153/muscle.html

&gt; Perhaps even the most intelligent among us are
&gt; not immune to delusion.

The URL above points to one article in one issue of *Noesis*, the journal of the Mega Society, a high-IQ society (like Mensa) which aims to select members at the one-in-a-million level. I am one of two editors of *Noesis*.

Given the current state of the art of high-range testing, it is questionable whether discrimination at the mega level is actually achieved, but the effective cutoff level is surely quite high.

For a look at the issues of *Noesis* which have been put online at the present time, see:

<a href="http://www.polymath-systems.com/intel/hiqsocs/megasoc/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.polymath-systems.com/intel/hiqsocs/megasoc/index.html</a>

There are many things besides disputes about Mr. Langan's CTMU in these issues.

Kevin Langdon

excreationist

<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> Welcome to the infidels boards, Kevin!

Vorkosigan

Yes, welcome aboard, Mr. Langdon. I'm curious as to how it seems the mere mention of your name attracted you to this thread.

Michael

Bill Snedden

I echo that last remark: Welcome to the boards Kevin!

I was going to ask you to perhaps provide us with your "take" on Chris' thesis, but the earlier link pretty much makes that clear.

I hope you choose to stick around. We also discuss much more than the CTMU here

Regards,

Bill Snedden

excreationist

Actually, I told him about this thread...

BTW, the mega society url is
<a href="http://www.polymath-systems.com/intel/hiqsocs/megasoc/megasoc.html" target="_blank">http://www.polymath-systems.com/intel/hiqsocs/megasoc/megasoc.html</A>

[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: excreationist ]</p>

GunnerJ

My local newspaper did a story about this person. You'd be surprised to know that he's a bouncer at a nightclub. (Oh, not that this invalidates anything he says... it's just kind of interesting.) He summed up his theory for the reporter by likening it to the Vulcan religon.

Kevin Langdon

In my opinion, stability and societal health are often inversely related in these societies. Smarter people are quicker to see that they are being treated unfairly by dictatorial leaders and rise up against them.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and of tyrants. It is its natural manure."
--Thomas Jefferson

See my "Intellectual Freedom Manifesto":

<a href="http://www.polymath-systems.com/intel/hiqsocs/manifest.html" target="_blank">http://www.polymath-systems.com/intel/hiqsocs/manifest.html</a>

Mensa has a deservedly bad reputation. Mensa members are more obnoxious than other people. This is true of many high-IQ people. Here is a rough, subjective index of neuroticism by IQ:

100 100
110 90
120 100
130 120
140 130
150 140
160 130
170 120
180 150
190 200

This is a strange, irregular distribution, but it represents my experience of interacting with a lot of people, many of whose IQ's I knew.

Mensa's cutoff is 133 (with a standard deviation of 16), the 98th percentile. The average Mensan would have an IQ of about 138 if Mensa were a random sample of the top two percent, but there are indications that there are a disproportionate number of extremely-high-IQ people in Mensa, so we can safely take IQ 140 as the appropriate level on the chart. However, Mensa members are not 130 in neuroticism, but more like 150, i.e., Mensa differentially selects neurotic high-IQ people. Mensa is largely a social club.

There is considerable variation in quality among the societies. I recommend the Mega Society (theoretically, 99.9999th percentile), the Prometheus Society (99.997th percentile), and the Triple Nine Society(99.9th percentile). For information about the societies, see my page:

<a href="http://www.polymath-systems.com/intel/hiqsocs/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.polymath-systems.com/intel/hiqsocs/index.html</a>


Kevin Langdon

Bill Snedden

Hey! I resemble that remark!

That's an interesting statement. Why do you think that would be the case? Does it have something to do with the cutoff level vs. the type of person to whom Mensa membership might appeal? The reasons people join Mensa?

Very true and largely the reason I don't really participate much.

Regards,

Bill Snedden

ohwilleke

These are precisely the organizations I was describing as disfunctional (for full disclosure, based not on first hand knowledge but on a sociological study or two that I've read and discarded).

Quite frankly, at some point, the operational definition of IQ means a lot more than what is actually measured at some point. But, there are not good operational definitions of IQ beyond a certain point, because academic ability, which is roughly what IQ is a proxy for, ceases to be a meaningful guide to selecting people at some point.

I would also be less charitable in describing the personal characteristics that make these organizations fall. Basically, these are groups of people who are not wise enough to see the benefits of cooperating with each other.

These are also individuals who have often shown in practice that their practical abilities are not commensurate with their theoretical intellectual abilities. Sure, it is fair to argue that business leaders, for example, rely on lots of luck and skills that have little to do with true intelligence, in the same way that a person of average intelligence might argue that their inability to lift heavy weights has nothing to do with their lack of intelligence. But, why are the worlds of science, academia, and the like not totally dominated by the extraordinarily intelligent? And, if intelligence doesn't translate into success in intellectual fields, what meaningful qualities does it measure?

[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: ohwilleke ]

[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: ohwilleke ]</p>