The Admiral

Fando

<<Do you mean sentient biengs must necessarily develop science?>>

Yes, I think so. I think it would be inevitable. Anyway, as you say, it's a thought worth dwelling on for which I thank you.

The Admiral

Vorkosigan

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/2000/001/2.26.html

has a good background article on Lewis. A sensitive, intelligent man, a gifted rhetorician and apologist, he was hardly a fanatic.

The Admiral

Atheist_in_foxhole


<<But now it's too late, and Lewis and most of the other legendary writers of xian "apologetics" are rotting in the cold, dark graves that they thought they would never enter thanks to a mythical Jewish guy who was supposedly nailed to a cross. How pathetic.>>

The trouble is, for every one that dies, two new ones spring up. Have you read Strobels "The Case For Christ"? Strobel had no trouble finding 13 highly educated fundies to tell him exactly what he wanted to hear. He had practically a bottomless pool from which to draw.

The Admiral

braces_for_impact

If I have another fundie spout off that stupid Strobel book, I'll barf! As if a single work will prove all beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Then heaven forbid (if you'll pardon the expression) you bust out 7 books which make a clear case against the "evidence" in Case for Christ because they won't even so much as bother to crack those open....

:banghead:

braces_for_impact

If I have another fundie spout off that stupid Strobel book, I'll barf! As if a single work will prove all beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Then heaven forbid (if you'll pardon the expression) you bust out 7 books which make a clear case against the "evidence" in Case for Christ because they won't even so much as bother to crack those open....

:banghead:

Scottyman

Excuse me but I've read several of his books and articles and IMO he was very much a religious fanatic. Your reference to a religious site confirms my opinion.

leonarde

From the OP:Hmm, perplexing. When "science" began is certainly
not cut and dried but:

1)if one identifies "science" with the "scientific
method" then we are only talking about a few centuries at the most.

2)if one identifies "science" with the "natural philosophy" of the medieval world then we are talking, at most about 1500 years.

3)if one identifies "science" with the ancient Greek philosophers, then we are talking about less
than 3000 years.

Since homo sapiens sapiens is, by virtually all accounts, AT LEAST 20,000 to 100,000 years old as
a species then one would have to posit some very unusual definition of "science" to claim that this
existed PRIOR TO the development of self-awareness. Wouldn't self-awareness be part and parcel of our species?? And that preceding "science" no matter how it's defined??

Cheers!

The Admiral

Leonarde

Good points. Lots of thinking to do on the issue. I'm looking forward to reading some more viewpoints.

The Admiral

callmejay

It's not particularly relevant, and it doesn't get much into his beliefs or writings, but Shadowlands is a good movie about C.S. Lewis falling in love. Anthony Hopkins plays him.

Malcolm

I used to be a great CS Lewis fan before my deconversion. Just for interest I recently read a biography of him by A N Wilson - himself a deconverted priest, although I am not sure that he would call himself an atheist. Fascinating biography, including the suggestion at the end that Lewis may have deconverted. All of the theologically conservative books that Lewis wrote were written early in his life. The last one he wrote was - to me - the best. "A Grief Observed". This was the book on which "Shadowlands", mentioned above by callmejay, was based.

Unfortunately I cannot recall the exact wording, but he goes on and on about his prayers not being answered, how God - in the time of his greatest ever need - refused to answer him at all, or even give any sign of his existence. Lewis himself does not overtly give up his faith, but there are strong reasons to think that he may have done so.

As far as fanaticism is concerned - that seems to have arisen mainly since his death, among his "followers" - and particularly in that little country on the west side of the north atlantic. There are shrines to be visited at places like Wheaton College, Grand Rapids, Michigan

I agree that Shadowlands is a great film (the one with Anthony Hopkins, not the other version). It vividly portrays intense emotion in an otherwise very "stuffed shirt" Oxford Don (yes - born in Belfast, but spent almost all of his life in England). Shows the power with which love can knock down prejudice and totally change one's perspective on life.

By the way - his life was transformed by the visit of an extrovert American atheist who came over to visit and ended up marrying him. It just so happens that I am available at the moment! Any takers???

Malcolm