tronvillain

Precisely. I simply draw the line below eating certain animals.

Not Prince Hamlet

Tronvillain,

And I respect that, just so long as you understand that your beliefs and values lead you to draw the line at one point, and that mine lead me to draw another.

What I object to is people who draw a line and then accuse others of being immoral. "You eat meat," they say, "so you're evil." But in reality, it's not black and white. There are infinite gradations of gray and the morality of each of these gradations depend on who's doing the evaluating.

Jeff

tronvillain

Uh, drawing the line below eating certain animals means that I am willing to eat certain animals. However, I do not object to certain people drawing a line above that point and accusing me of being immoral - from their perspective I am immoral. I'm just glad they aren't really in a position to do anything about it.

[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: tronvillain ]</p>

Not Prince Hamlet

Tronvillain,

I do object, because they're being hypocritical (we all sacrifice animals for our comfort to some degree) or at the very least, redundant: if we all do this, then there are an infinite number of gradations, and what's the point of someone in Delta(637799) attacking someone who's in Delta(637798)?

Jeff

tronvillain

They aren't necessarily being hypocritical or redundant.

1)That we all sacrifice animals for our own comfort to some degree doesn't mean we have to accept every degree.

2)Whether or not someone attacks someone else will obviously depend on many factors, one of which will be the degree of difference between them. Apparently some vegetarians see the difference as big enough to justify calling you immoral.

Bree

This is exactly why I choose to eat free-range meat products (eggs included). Why cause unnecessary harm? I don't think it's possible to NEVER inadvertantly cause an animal harm in this day and age - as someone else more worthy than I pointed out, we all drive cars, take antibiotics, and have some contact with leather (even if it's just the cord that keeps our eyeglasses around our necks). If we can't help it, we can at least make choices that will help lessen the blow to the animal, so to speak.

Danya

I don't know what goes on in the factories and I am not for animal suffering. But if factories are so deplorable why isn't something being done about that? I trust that there are regulations regarding unnecessary animal cruelty and sanitation. Of course I am naive about so many things but I would like to continue to believe this.

brighid

Danya,

I am not sure if there are regulations about how one may or may not slaughter or raise an animal, as long as it doesn't create unneccessary health risks to humans. I would really have to research that more. There are laws that are specific to how an animal can be treated, but I am not sure where those distinctions exist or how they apply differently to slaughter houses and it's possible that laws vary from state to state.

I feel it is better to allow an animal that will eventually be harvested for it's meat to live a life free range and it's healthy for the animal, the consumer and the land. I hate the idea of animals being caged, crammed into small places and living in their own feces. It's not good for the animal or the consumer. And depending on where you live it might be pretty difficult to get free range anything. There are a few places that carry a small to fair selection of these items where I live, but they tend to be more expensive. And once we get a large enough freezer we will eliminate purchasing from the actual grocery store and purchase from a local farm that we know is environmentally sound and cares for their animals well. It's cheaper, it's healthier and we believe in supporting our local small businesses over large franchises - except for a few that we know do socially and environmentally good work.

Brighid

SallySmith

Danya, I am not sure about daily living conditions but I do know that the Humane Slaughter Act requires that cattle & pigs are "rendered insensitive to pain" before butchering. Unfortunately this frequently does not happen. This article sums the situation up nicely (it is horrifying).

<a href="http://home.uchicago.edu/~whhsiung/Cruelty.htm" target="_blank">Washington Post slaughterhouse expose</a>

I believe as a direct result of this expose the Humane Slaughter Resolution was passed, which basically just says that the Humane Slaughter Act needs to be enforced.

I think nothing has been done until now because people generally don't care. Or more likely, they don't think about where their meat comes from. I was not above this - I did not give up beef until I read this article. It disgusted me so much that I decided that I couldn't be a party to it, even though I'm only one person out of millions. I hadn't ever really thought about it before. There is a lot more done to animals besides butchering them alive, such as the inhumane treatment of downed animals, sow crating, battery cages for chickens, veal, etc. Animal rights groups try to change this stuff (they are introducing a ballot initiative in Florida to ban sow crating), but nothing is going to happen until the general public is educated on the conditions that these animals live & die in. I do think that most people are compassionate and would want food animals to live humane lives and die humane deaths, even if it meant paying higher prices for meat.

Danya

Hope you don't mind but I will skip the article. It's a little early in the morning here...plus I don't think I want to know.