SimplyAtheistic

So let me get this straight, you STILL can't tell me what a soul IS, all you can tell me is what its characteristics are. What differentiates my personality from yours is my unique brain composition and reactions to stimuli. Science has not FULLY explained how the conscious mind works, but they have a general understanding of it. They are not confused and do not perform handwaving that is so typical of christians. I can at LEAST define my consciousness, I still have yet to receive the definition of a soul. I keep getting "Well, if you take away this or that then you come up with x" What the hell is "x"? Your unique neural arrangement allows you to respond to stimuli in a unique fashion, WHAT is so hard to comprehend about this? Where is the magic? I am sorry but I am missing what is so hard to understand. Please elaborate on the nature and DEFINTION of the soul, and maybe you can clarify things.
Jake

yguy

You have described it as "multitude of neuron stimulation in a complex pattern", but now you apparently mean to say that this neuron stimulation controls consciousness. If that's the case, how can it be consciousness?

When you have that, you will have nothing, because intelligence is not consciousness. Children tend to be more conscious than they are intelligent; adults tend towards the reverse.

Whether I can define it I don't know - but I know I have one, so that pretty well justifies saying there is one.

Here's the way I see it: intelligence is to consciousness as consciousness is to the soul. Or, the soul is to consciousness as my computer is to its OS; and consciousness is to intelligence as the OS is to applications.

Dominus Paradoxum

Well a spark of electricity is not conscious qua spark of electricity, it is not *merely* a spark. To your brain, that spark means something to the brain, and once we discover how it is synapses get their semantics I'll think we'll be able to figure out what consciousness is.

SimplyAtheistic

Consciousness is simply the ability to realize one's self. I am conscoius because I can react beyond simple responses. I don't just move according to my autonomic nervous system, I can rationalize data. Neuron stimulation controls consciousness because it IS our thoughts and our thoughts give rise to consciousness. So, how is that hard to understand?

If you program in the brain structure the machine will be able to determine its own existance and therefore it will be conscious. Intelligence (or at least the gathering of knowledge) gives rise to consciousness.

So let me get this straight, you don't even know what a soul is but you know you have one? That is a non-sequitur. I guess if a book says you have it though, why question it right?
Well, this clearly demonstrates your misunderstanding of all terms. So now a soul is the thing that allows us to live? It is our hardware so to speak? And why do you think that? Here is an analogy for you, one that actually makes sense. Our brain is the computer, and the neuron arrangement is the software. Each neuron arrangement is like a program, it is unique and since it has its own unique code it runs differently. The brain simply serves to execute the instructions stored in the neurons as the hardware serves to execute machine instructions. I know this is over simplified but I hope you get the point.
Jake

yguy

It's not hard to understand, but it's wrong. Thinking is ideally subordinate to consciousness. Consciousness can observe thinking, but thinking cannot observe consciousness.

I don't know I have a soul because the Bible says so, I know it because it IS so...just as you claim to have consciousness while obviously not knowing what it is. The only real difference between our positions is that your are unaware of your own ignorance.

SimplyAtheistic

Consciousness is the ability to realize ones self, to be aware. Now, to be aware one must be able to think. Since one can think through the services of the brain, the brain gives rise to consciousness. Consciousness is simply a highly complex thinking pattern where one is intelligent enough to observe himself and actually make sense of it. It is beyond simply responding due to autonomic stimulation. So really consciousness is simply a product of thinking.


I claim to have consciousness because I can experience it, and I can define it. You cannot even define a soul, so how should you know you have it? Science has shown me the method by which consciousness is produced, and the best you can come up with is a lack of a defintion and the meek answer of "I simply KNOW I have one". Please tell me you are not SERIOUSLY convinced of your own delusions.
Jake

yguy

Sorry, that's baloney.

The ability to define something is not indicative of any particular degree of understanding, as you have so clearly - if unintentionally - demonstrated.

Dominus Paradoxum

The soul would basically be a substratum that underlies consciousness, emotion, thoughts, etc. and unites them into one coherent self. Basically, it would be a thinking substance or 'a thing which thinks', to use Locke's term. Since I'm a bundle theorist, I think mental substances are just as much a fiction as material ones.

GrandDesigner

A soul isn't easily definable because it means something different to everybody. It's like love or even fun..Some woud say fun is when someone is enjoying things and can be seen when someone is smiling or laughing. Fun, to some, though is sitting around and complaining about things and whining about how well they could make a world. It turns out while some things have a definition in a dictionairy, they still hold different meanings to an individual. But when asked to describe it, it doesn't surprise me to hear "it's hard to explain".

But, to me, a soul is that bit of you that questions things. That bit of you that knows you exist but knows theres no reason to know that. Most would say thats close to consciousness but it's that part of you that knows there is the subconscious, as well, even though it's below the surface. It's that part of you that knows no matter how much proof there is to your senses, that you'll never ever truly know if you're just dreaming this or if other people really exist. It's that part of you that has faith that they do exist. But I could go on and on saying what it is to me and never ever get close to saying it all. So, while it's a bit futile to ask a question like that, at times its not bad to hear others takes on what it means to them. Thanks.

Grand Ol Designer

SimplyAtheistic

And how so?

I will ignore the personal attack, as it seems that is the last resort for your argument. And though it is true you can describe the actions of something without knowing what it is, in this case it is important to have the definition so one could at least think it possible to have a soul. Your arguments have proven nothing except your own inability to grasp a concept that you believe with complete faith, a grave error.
Jake