Freethought & Rationalism Archive

River · 06-25-2003, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EstherRose
If the Koran is the uncreated word of Gos passed down word for word through an archangel, then why was the Koran frequently changed at the suggestion of a mere scribe?

One hadith relates how it happened. �On a number of occasions he had, with the prophet�s consent, changed the closing words of verses. For example, when the prophet had said �And God is mighty and wise� (�aziz, hakim) Abdollah b. Abi Sarh suggested writing down �knowing and wise� (alim, hakim) and the prophet answered that there was no objection. Having observed a succession of changes of this type, Abdollah renounced Islam on the grounds that the revelations, if from God, could not be changed at the prompting of a scribe such as himself. After his apostasy he went to Mecca and joined the Qorayshites.�

Interesting, "one hadith" out of like a million . Where is your source ? Do you know that there are thousands of Hadiths? Do you know that there exists a scholarly field called " Science of Hadiths' which carefully traces back to the source of transmission , validity and reliability of the author as well , the manner in which it was repeated? This is not an area that is even debated by Orientalists. " Science of Hadiths" is Real. So now that you know that a " system of narration" exist....ask yourself ...Is the piece Legit? I am not going to do your homework

Goober · 06-25-2003, 11:46 PM

I think I missed the boat on this, but holy shit River, have YOU ever read the Origin of Species? I have, in fact I got it out and have it in front of me, and can tell straight away that you are either lying, and have never read it in your life, or you have read it and are deliberately quoting out of context to misrepresent what Darwin was saying.

Quote:

In the sixth chapter of Origin, "Difficulties on Theory," Darwin remarked, "Long before having arrived at this part of my work, a crowd of difficulties will have occurred to the reader. Some of them are so grave that to this day I can never reflect on them without being staggered."

The rest of the line is "but, to the best of my judgement, the greater number are only apparent, and those that are real are not, I think, fatal to my theory."

Quote:

And to think that the eye could evolve "by natural selection seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree."

Here he said this first, and then goes on to demonstrate that no matter how absurd it might seem, it could still arise, saying afterwards "then the difficulty of believing that [the eye] could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable to our imagination, can hardly be considered real."

Quote:

In his chapter on instinct he conceded such "simple" instincts as bees making a beehive could be "sufficient to overthrow my whole theory." For example, "nothing at first can appear more difficult to believe than that the more complex organisms and instincts should have been perfected, not by means superior to, though analogous with, human reason, but by the accumulation of innumerable slight variations."

Again, you completely misrepresent Darwin by quoting him out of context. On animal instincts he says "Therefore I can see no difficulty, under changing conditions of like, in natural selection accumulating slight modifications of instinct to any extent, in any useful direction." He in no way thinks that bees are a problem to his theory; he is raising hypothetical objections and then dealing with them.

Congratulations River, you just demonstrated your own intellectual bankruptcy.

Inconnu · 06-26-2003, 01:53 AM

One thing that appeals to me about evolution as opposed to the all loving superman creator is the existence of what we call evil. Survival of the fittest is, from a human perspective, an evil process. It fits perfectly with the existence of evil, as we judge it, in the world.
A "loving god" created world is what we would like to be true, but it does not fit. Maybe on a planet in a galaxy far far away your god is busy making the perfect world of love and harmony, probably after passing by ours one day and seeing what a terrible, intolerant, evil, self righteous place it was.

HelenM · 06-26-2003, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by River
I have nothing against Evolution . I do have a problem with those that claim that it is a better, more accurate alternative to Religion. For example , In the Book of Enoch , deformed humans were created by the interbreeding with Man and Jinn ( under Azazel). Now , recent evidence show that Homo Sapiens and Neandertals co-existed as well other species of man. Is the Bible wrong , or is science wrong? probably neither. You must understand that there are other modes of thinking.

Other modes of thinking?

Can you explain what those are?

Helen

River · 06-26-2003, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Goober
I think I missed the boat on this, but holy shit River, have YOU ever read the Origin of Species? I have, in fact I got it out and have it in front of me, and can tell straight away that you are either lying, and have never read it in your life, or you have read it and are deliberately quoting out of context to misrepresent what Darwin was saying.

The rest of the line is "but, to the best of my judgement, the greater number are only apparent, and those that are real are not, I think, fatal to my theory."

Here he said this first, and then goes on to demonstrate that no matter how absurd it might seem, it could still arise, saying afterwards "then the difficulty of believing that [the eye] could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable to our imagination, can hardly be considered real."

Again, you completely misrepresent Darwin by quoting him out of context. On animal instincts he says "Therefore I can see no difficulty, under changing conditions of like, in natural selection accumulating slight modifications of instinct to any extent, in any useful direction." He in no way thinks that bees are a problem to his theory; he is raising hypothetical objections and then dealing with them.

Congratulations River, you just demonstrated your own intellectual bankruptcy.

Yes, this all sounds like paraphrase. But the overtones are undeniable. Your messiah, pariah, had DOUBTS and expressed it in one way or another. Hey, atleast DARWIN was honest (to some degree).

River · 06-26-2003, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenM
Other modes of thinking?

Can you explain what those are?

Helen

I thought, this was self-explanatory.

aatayyab · 06-26-2003, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inconnu
Aatayyab, I have your answer! The world is such a shitty place because people dont bother to use the brains they are born with and accept the word of another as truth without question. Sometimes that word tells them to oppress, hurt and kill. They think they know the truth, but they know nothing.

First of all, my name is not Aatayyab, it is Amir Ali Tayyab, and I put my id as aatayyab. So, next time, you can address me Amir, instead of aatayyab, it hurts... don't you know :notworthy

I never answered that which you referred me saying. Of course, this shiitty world got WISE people like you alongwith DUMB people like me. WISE people like you use their brains and want to have either an intercourse with Goddess or be fucckked by a God to be proven that GOD EXISTS.

DUMB people like us simply can't even think like that. 'Cause we got no brains as per your claim. Whatever my Specialist Doctor says to me, I use that medicine. When I am sick and I need immediate relief, I simply don't do that Doctorate in Medicine first, acknolwedge prescription of my doctor, and then use that medicien to get relief of the pain.

See... how stupid I am? Just imagine.... Didn't you waste your time in addressing me?..... Sure you did that....

Amir Ali Tayyab
http://aatayyab.com

River · 06-26-2003, 04:53 AM

Sura-al Ikhlas {112:1-4}

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

And there is none like unto Him.

HelenM · 06-26-2003, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by River
Helen: Other modes of thinking?

Can you explain what those are?

Helen I thought, this was self-explanatory.

No, not to me. So, can you explain? A brief explanation would be fine.

Helen

HelenM · 06-26-2003, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by aatayyab
First of all, my name is not Aatayyab, it is Amir Ali Tayyab, and I put my id as aatayyab. So, next time, you can address me Amir, instead of aatayyab, it hurts... don't you know :notworthy

It's common on discussion boards to refer to people by their username. If you wanted to be referred to as "Amir", why didn't you sign up with "Amir" as your username?

Helen

06-26-2003, 04:53 AM	#168
River Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NY Posts: 3,680	Islamic Concept of G-d ( Holy Unity) Sura-al Ikhlas {112:1-4} In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.

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06-26-2003, 01:53 AM	#163
Inconnu Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: here Posts: 121	One thing that appeals to me about evolution as opposed to the all loving superman creator is the existence of what we call evil. Survival of the fittest is, from a human perspective, an evil process. It fits perfectly with the existence of evil, as we judge it, in the world. A "loving god" created world is what we would like to be true, but it does not fit. Maybe on a planet in a galaxy far far away your god is busy making the perfect world of love and harmony, probably after passing by ours one day and seeing what a terrible, intolerant, evil, self righteous place it was.

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