Freethought & Rationalism Archive

KnightWhoSaysNi · 05-29-2003, 08:43 AM

This is from a debate on TheologyWeb that you can find here.

In a formal debate, a Catholic poster claims this photo is proof of supernatural apparitions:

Here's the problem. Is it the Virgin Mary?

Or a Darlok? (God must like playing Master of Orion 2)

simian · 05-29-2003, 09:25 AM

Crud. I deleted my link to the news article about this. If it is the building I remember, yes, it is the virgin mary. Or rather it is the remains of an artist's painting of the virgin mary. If I remember correctly, it was painted on the building with an oil-based paint. The paint itself has been removed, but there is enough residue that when conditions are right (condensation?), the oil interacts and shows the image yet.

Of course, the correct response is to point to the hindu miracle of the statues of gods around the world drinking milk on the same day (back about 1994 or so). Of course most Christians immediately look for a rational explaination for that one, but not their own magic - what does that tell you?

Simian

Nostalgic Pushhead · 05-29-2003, 09:42 AM

Sure it was the remains of a painting? Isn't that glass? Who paints glass? I've always assumed itsjust simulacra (which is responsible for every "Jesus on a tortilla" miracle, or at least the ones that aren't hoaxes).

Simulacra is fun

ps418 · 05-29-2003, 09:49 AM

Interesting link, Piscez. I especially like the Rasputin in the cat's ear picture:

Does anyone remember the picture of smoke rising from the WTC that appeared to show a teletubby holding a giant lolly-pop?

Patrick

KnightWhoSaysNi · 05-29-2003, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ps418
Interesting link, Piscez. I especially like the Rasputin in the cat's ear picture:

OMG, that's hilarious!!! :notworthy

I posted this at the TheologyWeb discussion too. Thanks for that!

Toto · 05-29-2003, 12:03 PM

I've seen that aparition. It was not a painting, but the explanation was that somehow oil had been sprayed on the building.

Michael Shermer thinks it looks more like Marge Simpson.

MortalWombat · 05-29-2003, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
I've seen that aparition. It was not a painting, but the explanation was that somehow oil had been sprayed on the building.

This is from an article by Gary Posner:

Quote:

Any religious pilgrim, reporter, or casual visitor need only to walk around the building to note that the "Mary apparition" is hardly the only such colorful image present. Indeed, iridescent staining of a similar nature is apparent around its circumference wherever exposed reflective glass was used, and is particularly vivid where vegetation and sprinkler heads are in close proximity to the glass. Along the low hedges, the stains appear to hover just above their tops; where the palms grow high, the stains follow. Guss even overheard such comments as, "That one looks like a lady" and "That looks like an Indian."

...

As for the precise mechanism of the stain deposits and coloration, the St. Petersburg Times quoted local chemist Charles Roberts' view that the "rainbow" effect is due to water deposits and weathering combining to create a chemical reaction, such as is commonly seen in old bottles. Roberts, with 40 years of experience analyzing glass, added that a broken sprinkler head could have contributed to the higher areas of stain. (Guss informs me that it is common practice when transplanting mature palms to extend a temporary sprinkler to the growing top to keep it moist until the tree takes root.) On American Journal, Stephen Hughes of the National Glass Association, interviewed by Ch. 8's Mark Douglas, offered that such stains, caused by the sprinklers' mineral residue accumulating in the glass' somewhat porous coating layer, are not at all uncommon.

...

Question: If the window stains are the result of natural processes related to the proximity of vegetation and water, how was "Mary" created in the absence of a 30-foot-tall palm tree adjacent to her windows? Answer: She wasn't! Within a few days of the story breaking, the Times published a Florida Department of Transportation photograph clearly showing the image to be present in 1994! Well, "clearly" may not be the best choice of words, since palm trees, one almost exactly "Mary's" height (and since removed), partially obscure the otherwise easily recognizable image. Pat Johnson (a self-described "good Catholic boy") from City Glass & Mirror produced similar iridescent images for Ch. 44 by mixing oil and water on glass, and suggested that the oil in "Mary's" case may have come from the palms. Guss noted something else interesting, and perhaps pertinent -- Mary's next-door neighbor, directly facing her side of the building, happens to be a car wash with open bays. Perhaps the overspray of suds and wax represents another contributor to the coloration effect.

05-29-2003, 08:43 AM	#1
KnightWhoSaysNi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 2,767	Is it the Virgin Mary... or a Darlok? This is from a debate on TheologyWeb that you can find here. In a formal debate, a Catholic poster claims this photo is proof of supernatural apparitions: Here's the problem. Is it the Virgin Mary? Or a Darlok? (God must like playing Master of Orion 2)

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05-29-2003, 09:25 AM	#2
simian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 1,924	Crud. I deleted my link to the news article about this. If it is the building I remember, yes, it is the virgin mary. Or rather it is the remains of an artist's painting of the virgin mary. If I remember correctly, it was painted on the building with an oil-based paint. The paint itself has been removed, but there is enough residue that when conditions are right (condensation?), the oil interacts and shows the image yet. Of course, the correct response is to point to the hindu miracle of the statues of gods around the world drinking milk on the same day (back about 1994 or so). Of course most Christians immediately look for a rational explaination for that one, but not their own magic - what does that tell you? Simian

05-29-2003, 09:42 AM	#3
Nostalgic Pushhead Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: So. Burlington, Vermont Posts: 4,315	Sure it was the remains of a painting? Isn't that glass? Who paints glass? I've always assumed itsjust simulacra (which is responsible for every "Jesus on a tortilla" miracle, or at least the ones that aren't hoaxes). Simulacra is fun

05-29-2003, 09:49 AM	#4
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	Interesting link, Piscez. I especially like the Rasputin in the cat's ear picture: Does anyone remember the picture of smoke rising from the WTC that appeared to show a teletubby holding a giant lolly-pop? Patrick

05-29-2003, 12:03 PM	#6
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I've seen that aparition. It was not a painting, but the explanation was that somehow oil had been sprayed on the building. Michael Shermer thinks it looks more like Marge Simpson.

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