Jayhawker Soule

There are few things so vile and hurtful as this sick justification of the 'logic' behind 9/11.

Godless Dave

Harumi,

For myself, not very often. I'm not trying to be smug. I just don't think I've been in a position bad enough where believing in a god would provide comfort. Of course I wish there were an afterlife, not just for myself, but for my grandmother who passed away recently, and my other grandmother who is very ill. I wish she really were going to be reunited with my late grandfather. I would feel a lot better about her death if that were the case.

But wanting to believe is a big jump away from actually believing. Lest anyone is afraid of answering Harumi's question honestly, I don't think we atheists need to be ashamed of wishing a higher power existed. On the contrary, we should be proud of being smart enough to realize that wanting something to be true is not grounds for believing it is true.

Draygomb

Has anyone read the case studies of reincarnation? There is some really interesting evidence in favor of it. My favorite being the ultraviolet Birthmarks.

daemon

This is not a viable stance in most forms of Christianity that I have heard of, considering God is alleged to be omnipotent. Given that, anything that exists is God's will. If God did not want suffering, it would not exist.
Yes. If God exists, free will is no blessing.
The irony is, of course, that us relatively non-religious folks are living longer, healthier lives today than ever before. So the consequences of "rebelling against God" is... health?
Ah, so humanity--at least humanity you dislike--is a cancer to be purged. Congratulations, you're one step away from being a monster.
From personal experience, I can attest that this is incorrect.
Can you spot the contradiction here?
You present a decidedly unbiblical view of heaven. I suggest you try reading the Bible.
...unless, of course, that someone else is a cancerous mass in God's creation. Then you have every right to kill, rape, or torture them. Hooray!

Ron, I'm sure you're a nice guy, and I'm sure you mean well, but I find your religion to be morally repugnant. I doubt you even live by the tenets of your own religion; most Christians don't, thankfully.

Bait

. Whoa...back up partner. I did not, nor do not "justify" 9/11. Clearly an act of Lucifer...and see what is happening as a result. Don't blame 9/11 on God. 9/11 was the acts of sick, mislead MEN. God did not order it. For the record, I lost a close friend at the WTC
...so vent your anger elsewhere please, I was not trying to insult you, nor "justify" anything, and if that is the way you read it, you read wrong. I was merely explaining MY faith, nothing more. It's your choice whether to believe it or not. And I'm not pushing you one way or another. Perhaps I'm wrong, but you seem to be blaming Christianity for something, something that has caused a great deal of anger in you. I'm sorry you feel that way, especially if it was a "christian(s)" who caused the anger. Just quit blaming me, or my faith, for all of the ills of the world. I said up front that what I was writing was theology...and if it upsets you, don't read it. Chill dude.
Ron

Bait

One other thing, I was talking about the Hitites, etc of the old testament...where God commanded that the Hebrews battle against them. I was NOT talking about 9/11 AT ALL...you sir, made a great, huge and insulting leap. Those societies/cities of the old testament had been given a chance...and did not take it, same with Sodom and Gomorrah. Nothing even close to the WTC situation. I do not, never said, or even hinted that the 9/11 was a punishment from God. In fact, I tried to be civil, even stated that I respected your leanings..faith/or lack therof. I did not deserve, or appreciate, your crass, crude and hurtful insinuation, and believe that you sir, owe me an apology.
Ron

SharonDee

Bait, I think ReasonableDoubt knows that you weren't justifying 9/11. What you were justifying, though, was the attitude ("those people had it coming!") that makes atrocities like the WTC happen.

That it's a story in an ancient book and not a story from the latest headlines makes no difference in the point made.

HelenM

Ron

The problem I have with the God you describe is that he's like a parent standing there watching his child run out in the street and get run over by a car and saying "Oh well, he chose to do it".

And then you say it's not God's fault.

But what would you think of that kind of a parent?

Or was this a child there was 'no hope' for?

love
Helen

99Percent

Have you ever seen a movie or read a book that it was so good that you regret it ended? You wished it would have continued, maybe forever.

What you have to realize is that this book or movie were so good precisely because they had an ending. If it never had an ending it would go on in an endless repetition and soon it would get very very boring.

Same with heaven. Heaven, if it existed, would turn out to be so boring that it would be the equivalent to death itself.

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: 99Percent ]</p>

Mad as Hell

The idea of there not being a loving god does not
bother me but the idea of dying and becoming non-existent is impossible for the emotional part of my mind to get a handle on. Rationally I do get it and see no evidence whatsoever that there is anything that remains once we die. Still I have small moments of panic. What helps me is the idea that it is just the same state as before I was born(as someone said before). I try to look at it as a permanent state of general anesthesia which I have experienced twice. Nothing existed while I was under, including ME. I think of it as a temporary state of brain death.
On the other hand(getting a little off the subject), I would not want to become immortal if it meant that I could never escape from existence if I wanted to. If someone told me today that I could live forever but had no option of dying once I made the choice, I don't think I would take it.