Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Philosoft · 08-09-2003, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
Magus did explain this issue: A&E didn't know of good and evil, but they did know what "thou shalt not" meant, so they were culpable of eating of the fruit.

However, the logical implications seem to require more knowledge.

God: Thou shalt not eat from the tree.
A&E: What happens if we do?
God: Thou shalt surely die.
A&E: Dying. Is that good or bad?

Majody · 08-09-2003, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Philosoft
However, the logical implications seem to require more knowledge.

God: Thou shalt not eat from the tree.
A&E: What happens if we do?
God: Thou shalt surely die.
A&E: Dying. Is that good or bad?

This is kind of what I meant. Whether or not they knew to obey God, they could not have known the consequences for their actions.

NonHomogenized · 08-09-2003, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
Magus did explain this issue: A&E didn't know of good and evil, but they did know what "thou shalt not" meant, so they were culpable of eating of the fruit.

wait... this doesn't follow. Just because they knew what "thou shalt not" means, doesn't mean they know they should obey it.

While we're talking about A&E... did they go to heaven or hell?
After all, they didn't have the chance to be forgiven by gZeus, and they obviously spent a portion of their lives disobeying god: at least enough so that they got kicked out of paradise, and got all life on Earth horribly cursed.
OTOH, god's got a pretty shitty track record if his very first people, who lived around him for most of their lives, ended up getting sent to hell. Furthermore, if they went to hell, and we nowadays are, by default, condemned, then how could there be holy people before the forgiveness of gZeus?

AJ113 · 08-09-2003, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Philosoft
However, the logical implications seem to require more knowledge.

God: Thou shalt not eat from the tree.
A&E: What happens if we do?
God: Thou shalt surely die.
A&E: Dying. Is that good or bad?

This may be just picky, or it may be relevant. Would A&E actually know the difference between good and bad?

If they didn't know the difference between good/evil, right/wrong, wouldn't it follow that they did not know the difference between good and bad?

And following on this line of thinking, wouldn't the lack of this type of knowledge, in essence, void them of free will? Because free will isn't really about choosing to scratch your arse when you feel like it, it's about choosing the RIGHT thing, isn't it?

Doctor X · 08-09-2003, 10:28 PM

What if scratching your arse is the right thing?

--J.D.

AJ113 · 08-09-2003, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doctor X
What if scratching your arse is the right thing?

--J.D.

Well I'd rather sctratch my arse than eat Jebus's arse along with the rest of his body. :-)

Doctor X · 08-09-2003, 10:39 PM

You mean you change your underwear?

[Right! Stop that!--Ed.]

Yes . . . anyways, in all seriousness I do not believe the writers of this myth were very concerned with matters of "free will" and all that. They explained why we are not like the gods. That a god is instrumental in preventing humans from making it that far is par for the course--remember what happened to Promethius?

--J.D.

Volker.Doormann · 08-10-2003, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Majody
A&E did not have the knowledge of good and evil. Obviously, disobeying God is an evil thing. This seems to create a kind of paradox, doesn't it?

No. She had knowledge of good. "And out of the ground made the god of life to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; ... And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes .. "

But it is senseless to serve rational arguments to fantasy myths. No one ever will be able to prove or disprove the homosexuality of Donald Duck by rationality. The Genesis myth of Judaism is a bad remainder of some prior myths from India and Sumer, which can show, that this claims are in common with other social claims of 'religious' authorities to slave brave beings.

Volker

sophie · 08-10-2003, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Philosoft : However, the logical implications seem to require more knowledge.

How would they know to ask about G&B.

My revised scenario :

opmniGOD: Thou shalt not eat from the tree.
A&E: What happens if we eat from the tree?
omniGOD: Thou shalt both surely die.
A&E: Die What is die?
omniGOD : When you are no more. When you are boat gone from the garden.

livius drusus · 08-10-2003, 08:59 AM

A boat in a garden?

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08-09-2003, 10:28 PM	#15
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	What if scratching your arse is the right thing? --J.D.

08-09-2003, 10:39 PM	#17
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	You mean you change your underwear? [Right! Stop that!--Ed.] Yes . . . anyways, in all seriousness I do not believe the writers of this myth were very concerned with matters of "free will" and all that. They explained why we are not like the gods. That a god is instrumental in preventing humans from making it that far is par for the course--remember what happened to Promethius? --J.D.

08-10-2003, 08:59 AM	#20
livius drusus Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Selva Oscura Posts: 4,120	A boat in a garden?

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