Mageth

Anyone read Chinese? I'd love to know more about this.

talkorigins had a feedback letter and response on this (search for "boat").

Arken

Fact? I don't think so.

Beliefs of the Christian Identity movement.

KC

It's from The Descent of Man:

Note he is talking about civilizations, not skin color.

KC

lpetrich

And also all those who have believed that black people are subject to the "curse of Ham". In Genesis 9:20-27, Noah got drunk and accidentally exposed himself. His son Ham got an eyeful, inviting his brothers Shem and Japheth to take a look. But Shem and Japheth preferred to look away and to cover up Noah. And when Noah discovered this, he cursed Ham and his offspring.

KC

This story has always given me the creeps.

KC

Dr.GH

The reference to Mayan Blue is weird. The point is obscure at best, and I fail to see how this could be a "problem" for evolutionary theory.

First, Mayan Blue is a very good looking kind of pre-contact ceramic manufactured in Yucatan. The debate has been whether this was an organic pigment, or inorganic- and if it was inorganic, was it applied to the pot's suface before or after it was fired in the kiln. The modern Mayan pottery kilns reache temperatures around 780 C, although some pre-contact kilns were pit-kilns which reached higher temperatures. The two researchers that I most associate with Mayan Blue are Dean Arnold, and Anna Shepard.

Arnold is of the opinion (or was 30 years ago) that Mayan Blue was a post firing surface treatment which was bound with exceptional strength because the Yucatec pottery used a mix of two clays: a mixed kaolinite/montmorillonite (Maypan Yucatec= K'at, or Kan K'at {clay, or red clay}) and attapulgite (Maypan Yucatec= Sak Lu'um {white earth}). Tempering materials were different calcium carbonates, mostly calcite (Maypan Yucatec= Sakap {derived from Sak-Kap=white+soil} or a macro-crystaline form (Maypan Yucatec= Hi' ). Old sherds of pottery were also ground and used as temper. This temper produced a very hard, well vitrified claybody.

Attapulgite is a marine clay that has a "keyed" lath crystal and binds ions very well. Interestingly it has quite a high lead content which might lower vitrifications temeratures. I suggested to Arnold that iron manganese nodules ( Xta K'ok ) were the likely pigment source. These nodules form in the upper 30 cm of marine clays and are commonly found where Mayan potters dig their clay.

Shepard, as I recall, thought that the color was a result of oxidation of the kiln atmosphere durring firing acting on some particular clay source.

I never messed with the question myself. Shepard died and all her material was tossed by a relative of hers. (My wife says that she will do the same to my stuff if I don't make other arrangements). Arnold sent me some samples and I was going to do a neutron activation analysis of them, but I never got around to it.

For all of that, I still see no "problem" for evolution. But, it was fun to see how much I could remember from my 27 year old dissertation.

Nic Tamzek

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Originally posted by mecca777
b) Did you know that nobody has ever used the Bible to justify "appauling" mistreatment of the supposed "lower" races? Fact.
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appalling spelling of "appauling"...

Arken

I believe their (ludicrous and completely flawed) reasoning is that if an ancient society was more advanced than a modern one, it couldn't have evolved thus evolution is false... or something like that anyway.

Roland98

Is that what ol' Ken's up to these days??

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

For some reason, I keep getting a "Cannot Find Page" error type thingie. Hmm... any suggestions?