scombrid

Quickest answer. THE FLOOD killed all but those who were on the ark. How did folks from these other civilizations survive to pass down the story?

Shinobi

Heh. I just asked that on the thread. It'll be interesting seeing him try to worm out of that one.

Roller

Those were the descendants from Noah who repopulated the Earth. Therefore they all remember the story. Of course, in some cases memory faded. Probably from all the beer involved in some of the flood stories (check for Kikuyu myth story at TalkOrigins). So turtle or two would appear from time to time...

But how did they get to Americas, Australia and all that other VERY remote places? I guess they surfed the receding waves all the way... But I'm sure it involved hell, sin, slaughter, and some burning bushes or something... Well, maybe it just included a LOT of drugs.

ps418

Exactly, which means that the stories are not independent accounts at all, but are descended with modification from an ur-flood myth. Another important question is how many of these versions are dependent on influence from other cultures. For instance, suppose a missionary visits a remote tribe and tells them a flood story. Years later, a second missionary comes, and starts to tell a flood story and someone stops him with: "We know that story!," an proceeds to tell a version of it as best they recall.

Patrick

Dr.GH

In terms of flood accounts that were clear sources for the Genesis account look to the following:

Atrahasis:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/...atrahasis.html

Gilgamesh:
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/...esh/index.html

Kings of Sumer
http://www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk/section2/tr211.htm

The earliest is the flood stoy of Atrahasis (Tablet 3) followed by the Gilgamesh version, and then the formalism of a geneaological structure (toledot from the List of the Kings of Sumer (see Gen 6:9-9:29).

Each telling of the story had a different goal, or meaning that the teller of the story wished to convey.

Literalists will simple attribute the progression of stories to the Tower of Babel story. They cannot control, however, the independent archaeological chronologies that place the sources in the sequence: Atrahasis-Gilgamesh-Kings of Sumer List, and then the Genesis account with nearly contemporary stories from Ugarit.

Roller

Exactly
Carl Sagan did a good job explaining how Dogons might knew about Sirius B in his book "Broca's Brain".

Doubting Didymus

What kind of great flood? Obviously there have been uncountable floods in the past, no doubt some of which were cataclysmic and destroyed towns.

pz

A worldwide flood? Yes.

Local floods of great magnitude happened then and happen now. And if your civilization happens to be built on a flood plain, as was quite common, they happened with great regularity and with significant consequences, and tended to be enshrined in your local mythology. So what?

kinetekade

Wait... this sounds too damn familiar... Is www.abcbodybuilding.com the forum you're talking about? Is "yu yevon" the moderator who went on and on about angels and demons?

kinetekade

Alright Shinobi, I knew it was only a matter of time before those crazy mods forced another ABC member over to II

I used to be a member of ABC until a couple months ago. They banned me for "disrespect" (aka being an atheist who chose to comment on their "Bible studies" and YEC ranting) and some other trumped up nonsense. I have the same display name here - do you remember me?

Here's the link to the discussion that motivated this thread - http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum...fpart=all&vc=1

Shinobi is "Shinobi909," if you didn't already figure that out, and the fundy he's arguing with is "President Wilson."

Did you give up Shinobi? That thread might have died down now, but here are a few more that started recently:

"13 billion year old planet discovered? Biblical questions?" - http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum...5&o=&fpart=all

"How to use the Word of God Part 1- Accuracy of Scripture and Salvation" - http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum...5&o=&fpart=all

"religion questions" - http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum...b=5&o=&fpart=1

"Capital Punishment -vs- Christianity? Your Opinion?" - http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum...5&o=&fpart=all

"Walking with Caveman" - http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum...5&o=&fpart=all

And here's that Angels/Demons thread Shinobi was referring to...

"Angels and Demons Part 2!" - http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum...5&o=&fpart=all

Dr. GH: Quite a coincidence that this thread has been started now, wouldn't you say?

Earlier this week, I had asked Gary to take a trip over to ABC because now that I've been banned and the couple other freethinkers drifted away, those Creationists are no longer opposed. Aside from the bodybuilding, that site has largely become a Creato-melting pot. The site is mostly filled with teenagers who quickly become quite taken with the AiG/RAE/ICR/Trueorigins/ChristianAnswers/DrDino crap that the moderators gratuitously copy-paste (without any citation) into every post that has mention of the Bible, Creation, God, Evolution, or science. It's sickening... and what's even more sickening is the applause they get for being "scholars" of Biblical history and "experts" in the many fields of science.

If any of you guys find yourself with some spare time, PLEASE take a trip over to ABC and put those moderators in their place; they're long overdue for a "real" scientific argument, or as Shinobi put it: a smackdown. You'll be doing me a huge favor. Of course, I would happily do it myself, but for some odd reason, I can't seem to re-register on that site...

Thanks a lot,

Cade

II Mods: Sorry to sidetrack this thread a bit...