Tabula_rasa

If god is not evil, perhaps you could explain 2Kgs.2 ? This is just one of many instances in the bible where we see the xian god commiting acts that are inherently, unjustifiably and without doubt evil.

And before saying that we pitiful humans cannot understand that this was not an evil act, I would remind you that as gods ourselves we do understand the difference between good and evil acts.

Tabula_rasa

Ab_Normal

Nice try. I'm actually proceeding from a lack of belief in any gods. Thanks for playing.

Infidelettante

Soma, tiny question. Who rebelled first, Satan or Adam?

JT

Philosoft

I agree. However, your "objective, philosophical truth" amounts to "God does what God does." You lack a higher standard with which to judge God's actions. Thus, it's possible that God intends to lead us to our collective deaths soon and you have nothing but God's word, which you already mentioned is the standard in and of itself, to suggest otherwise.

Nor, presumably, are they sufficient grounds to accept God.
No, but we hardly have God itself as proof either way. We have only our concepts, which are mere accumulations of assertions. So, at this point, God has done some evil actions. And you have only God's word, which has already been shown arbitrary, to say otherwise.

Jobar

Oh, no. Isn't Magus55 enough?... :banghead:

OK, kiddies. A bit of comic relief, here!

Interview with Satan!

Ah, before that, you really should read, in this order-

Interview with Jehovah
Interview with Jesus
Interview with the Virgin Mary

Courtesy of me ol' pal and fellow freethinkersforum denizen, Ozheretic!

CannibalCorpseLC

god is not evil because one thinks he is not.

Answerer

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Infidelettante

I'll try again. Soma I am having just a little trouble with this evil/ free will/Satan concept. Is it all just so confusing or is there some little thing I'm missing that would make it fit together so that it makes sense and could you help me with this, please. Thank you. So, God, his big rightness has been hanging around for well just forever you know. And I guess it would have to get sort of lonely after an eternity or two. What with there being, well no being, you know? what I mean? anyway. This is just harder than I thought. So his highness makes the Angels first right? They, the Angels are there to praise His Name and sing for Him all the time because he is God. So that was their job right? They didn't get to do other things. I mean its not like they could choose or anything right? And this is where it just goes off and leaves me wondering what I missed. They the Angels didn't have free will did they? No now that is a question I just don't see how they could have had. Free will is being able to say no to GOD I guess and they the Angels couldn't do that could they? You know they did though The Angels they said no to HIM. The Angels and their leader Satan said no GOD now you listen we are tired of doing nothing but singing about you all the time and it just makes me want to cry to think about how HE must have felt when they did that. Why it must have really hurt so very much to be Himself and have them do somthing just so mean and hatefull to HIM after all HE did making them and teaching them to sing and all. Can you blame HIM for throwing the Angels out of Heaven. I don't not one bit but I get confused here because if the Angels didn't have free will and they still said no to GOD which is the most evil thing that had ever happened to that time because to that time nothing evil had ever happened. You see? If the Angels could do such an evil thing without free will how can HE blame us for what we do with free will? I'm just confused and I know you could help and thankyou.

JT

Psycho Economist

How is it not a judgment to say "if your god exists, then he is a needy, sadistic unfit parent of a deity"? Your belief that mortal judgments are not binding on your deity does not make such judgment impossible. That said, just because the judgments are not binding does not make them untrue.

Thank you. Come again.

Jamie_L

The way I see it, Satan is God's mob enforcer. He's the thug who does the dirty work.

Need to test the kiddies in Eden? Satan, here's a job for you.

Need a way to get Jesus on the cross? Satan, here's a job for you. Work with this Judas fellow, he seems pretty reasonable.

Need a way to weed out the wicked from the good before judgement day? Satan, here's a job for you: Tempt all these fine folks so that I can tell which ones are losers and which one's ought to get into heaven.

Need a way to kill some time? Hang out with Satan and play betting games. See also the book of Job.

Need a way to distract people from all the evil in the world? Satan, here's a job for you: I need you to take some heat while I lay low for a while.

I'm telling you, the only logical explanation for Satan is that he's God's henchman, scapegoat, and occasional poker buddy. If he was really a rebel, God would have smote him a long time ago.

Jamie

edited to add:
The weaker version of this arguement is that Satan isn't God's buddy and servant, but is, in fact, a devious rebel. But, God likes having Satan's rebelliousness causing evil and mayhem in his creation, as evidenced by Satan's continued existence and rebelliousness and mayhem. I God didn't want these things, he would have smote Satan long ago.

But I much prefer the model of Satan as God's muscle-bound thug. It makes for good mental imagery, and decent blasphemous fiction to boot.