echidna

I'll assume your post is correct. Putting “Democratic” in your Nation’s title does not … (get it ?)

Whatever path one takes, there will always be those who you despise, who would like to shelter under the same banner (you probably know the feeling huh ?). And I for one, will be telling them to f%ck off.

Amos

Yes, I have a problem with this because that is an artificial stimulus that can lead to perversion.

The same is true with violence and the effect that exposure to violent techniques has on children.

The exploration of the human body is natural, even among children, but just as we should not go shopping with an empty stomach so should we not encourage children to exploit their own body.

Mark_Chid

How can antone exploit THEMSELVES? Thats ridiculous. Do you know what the word 'exploit' means?

Amos

Yes I do, an artificial stimulus is exploitive in nature or it would not be artificial. It's like viagra for children.

[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

raistlinjones

Umm...yeah. Look, if you're going to convince someone you're right, the best approach usually is not just to make the same point again. Watch, this is what you did:

you) an artificial stimulus is exploitative. Through using it, a child exploits his own body.

them) Why?

you) Because an artificial stimulus is exploitative, therebory allowing the child to exploit his own body.

Wow, thanks for the explanation!!!!

That's a strange comparison to make, too, between viewing pornography and viagra. With viagra, you're taking a chemical which triggers your body to produce an erection and sustain it. Pornography does no such thing - it is a picture, at worst a tool that is used as part of a fantasy. Instead of just imagining a naked girl in their head (which is the most "natural" of fantasies you could have, I guess) there is a picture you can look at, and extrapolate from to make a fantasy. How is this an "artificial stimulus"?

Assuming for a second that this really is an artificial stimulus, whatever that is, how do you feel about McDonalds commercials? When the Big Mac comes on the screen, I'm getting an artificial stimulus in the same way, because it makes me hungry, right? Does that mean that a six-year old, who watches a McD commercial voluntarily is "exploiting his own body"? If not, wherein lies the difference?

Amos

Thanks for the example because that is the reason why McD spends millions on advertising. They want to sell hamburgers to people who otherwise would not buy hamburgers because it is silly to spend money on advertising if it does not attract more customers.

echidna

Amos is absolutely correct on this.

It’s clear that as a child one is not able to handle many issues which one is better equipped when one matures into an adult. That’s a major reason we have the concept of an age of consent and age-related censorship.

Sexual abuse of the same level has far worse long-lasting effects when inflicted on a child than on an adult. Similar for many other “triggers” or “stimuli”.

raistlinjones

But Amos, you didn't answer my question - if we agree that McD commercials are also "artificial stimuli", does that mean it's wrong for a child to watch them? Is the child's body being exploited?

My guess would be that you'll want to say that the fact that the examples you gave involves sexual feelings makes the relevant difference. But if so, then it's hard to see that the idea of "artificial stimulus" is inherently bad anymore. Instead, I think a better reason for thinking a child is exploiting his own body in that case is that children should not be having that type of fantasy. Whether that fantasy is based on a picture or in his head, either way he would be exploiting his own body by masturbating to it. Does this capture your feelings in the matter?

Amos

There is a difference between exploration and exploitation and my objection is that artificial stimulus is not natural.

If children see the add and want a burger but don't get one they'll be dissapointed and this proves exploitation. If they just had Kentucky fried chicked and then see the advertisement McD did not benefit from the add.

An artificial stimulus is aimed to create a desire and children should be protected from such unsolicited persuasion especially with regard to their own sexuality for as long as they are children at least. To put this on a slippery slope your position would allow child orgies in grade school.

echidna

Most countries already restrict advertising to varying extents, largely for this reason. This is also why age restrictions apply to media programming, and why advertising receives heavy criticism when it targets younger markets for smoking or alcohol.

On food advertising I believe several Scandinavian countries already restrict advertising of inappropriate food to children, and the issue has received wide debate in Australia as well, especially given that we now have the world’s fattest children !!