Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Biff the unclean · 07-12-2003, 04:10 PM

Or could it possibly be that you are clueless when it comes to interpreting scripture?

It could be that I'm clueless. Because when I read " There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till�" and " All these things shall come upon this generation" and " This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" and " there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power" for some odd reason I think it is saying that that it's going to happen in the lifetime of those being addressed.

I read Luke, sometime in the first century, clearly saying " This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled" and it doesn't sound the least bit obscure. It doesn't sound the least bit truthful either considering that it is now the twenty first century. Because it's not just one quote to be misunderstood. Book after book, author after author, quote upon quote�they all say the same thing. They say it in slightly different ways so if you are confused by some you'll get the message from the others. Jesus is coming back, there is going to be a rapture and it is going to happen in the first century CE. It doesn't give the exact date but it stresses again and again and again that "there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." They are all dead. Their great, great , great grandchildren are all dead.

I might be clueless in interpreting scripture but I know bull shite when I see it and these gospels are loaded with it.

Biff the unclean · 07-12-2003, 05:48 PM

In the opening days of WW II legend has it that a Navy transport pilot named John Frum (he probably said "Hi, I'm John from Chicago" and was miss-heard) was shot down by the Japanese. He crash landed his burning plane in the shallows off an island near New Guinea. Although he survived intact he was immediately set upon by natives who appeared to be cannibals. But being an American sailor he was up to any challenge and proceeded to give the cannibals presents of his cargo. He was on the island for a few weeks giving everyone he met government issued manna from heaven until a PBY came and rescued him. The natives declared their love for him and pleaded with him to stay. Some versions say they wanted him to be their king. He told them that he would come back soon and when he did he would take them all up in his plane for a ride.
He never did.
Since then natives in the western Pacific build airplane decoys out of bamboo to try to lure passing planes to land with their cargo. One sect even tries to hatch American Sailors from eggs.
However in present day Fiji, vacation spot of the jet setters, the John Frum Party has become a major political force.

How is this Cargo Cult any different from being Rapture Ready?

JGL53 · 07-12-2003, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
...How is this Cargo Cult any different from being Rapture Ready?

Well, a plane might actually land again someday. Planes are real, as are people. OTOH, I think it's pretty clear the RR people are into a mere fairy tale. Ergo, I see a distinct difference.

//riot of disorder:: · 07-12-2003, 06:15 PM

I believe the majority of the users on RaptureReady have affective schizophrenia. That is characterized by their constant postings of "I was attacked by demons in my sleep!" And they attack people different from them, and think that Harry Potter is evil. It amazes me that those people are able to use a computer without breaking it every 2 minutes. I concur with the John Frum analysis, and i'll end this post with my own.

The difference between religous people and nonreligous people is this. You're watching a TV. Do you ever wonder how it works? What forces make the picture appear on the screen? Or do you just marvel at it and never question it's mechanics?

winstonjen · 07-13-2003, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QueenofSwords
Originally posted by Magus55
as long as my arguments continue to have a Christian base behind them, there will always be insults and sarcastic remarks.

Well, I'm glad you recognize your failing. That's the first step to solving the problem. The next step is an apology from you, followed by a promise to try not to do it again.

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

Something worthy for the ages. Perfect Nutwatch commentary from an expert Nutwatcher.

Also, Magus, you should be thankful that II does not have RR's attitude towards theistic posts as the have towards atheistic posts. Being banned for insulting your god. That's just ludicrous. :boohoo:

Rational BAC · 07-13-2003, 01:51 AM

Weren't the 4 Gospels written down in the beginning part of the 2nd century?

If so-----------then obviously those who did transcribe those Gospels must have known that that generation HAD passed away--(especially considering the short life spans of the time)--- and therefore those writers were NOT taking that prophecy literally. Why should we?

Which leads to the non-literal interpretation of that prophecy which Christians hold today.

I do not see a problem here. Just atheist nit-picking.

Diadectes · 07-13-2003, 03:51 AM

Quote:

And what would consitute a debate from a Christian that doesn't get them insulted? I debate from my view point and base it on the Bible and God. Atheists are against Christianity, so as long as my arguments continue to have a Christian base behind them, there will always be insults and sarcastic remarks. We will never be treated as equals because you see us as inferior.

*sigh* here we go again. All I'm asking is that you answer the questions that are put to you instead of jumping up and down and stamping your feet or hiding behind the sofa every time someone point sout the illogical thinking behind many of your pronpouncements. Once again: please go back to the Angels threa dand answer my q

Diadectes · 07-13-2003, 04:01 AM

Quote:

And what would consitute a debate from a Christian that doesn't get them insulted? I debate from my view point and base it on the Bible and God. Atheists are against Christianity, so as long as my arguments continue to have a Christian base behind them, there will always be insults and sarcastic remarks. We will never be treated as equals because you see us as inferior.

*sigh* here we go again. All I'm asking is that you answer the questions that are put to you instead of jumping up and down and stamping your feet or hiding behind the sofa every time someone points out a flaw in your thinking. How can you possible hope to learn anything that way? I accept that there is much that I am ignorant of and I welcome the chance to be introduced to new ways of thinking (even your own, believe it or not, though I do not agree with it). Once again: please go back to the Angels thread and answer my questions about the power of sin and its apparent ability to limit God's actions. It is not that people think you are inferior, Magus, its that many people find it difficult to understand how you can be so certain about your beliefs, yet fail to respond intelligently to any arguments put against them.

Diadectes · 07-13-2003, 04:05 AM

Apologies for the almost-double posting there. See, told you there were things I was ignorant about - operating computers properly is one of them!

mark9950 · 07-13-2003, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Weren't the 4 Gospels written down in the beginning part of the 2nd century?

Where are all the sour grapes and complaints from people who waited and jesus did not come?

I know there had to have been people who were disappointed and angry because jesus did not come or did he?

07-12-2003, 05:48 PM	#32
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Cargo Cult In the opening days of WW II legend has it that a Navy transport pilot named John Frum (he probably said "Hi, I'm John from Chicago" and was miss-heard) was shot down by the Japanese. He crash landed his burning plane in the shallows off an island near New Guinea. Although he survived intact he was immediately set upon by natives who appeared to be cannibals. But being an American sailor he was up to any challenge and proceeded to give the cannibals presents of his cargo. He was on the island for a few weeks giving everyone he met government issued manna from heaven until a PBY came and rescued him. The natives declared their love for him and pleaded with him to stay. Some versions say they wanted him to be their king. He told them that he would come back soon and when he did he would take them all up in his plane for a ride. He never did. Since then natives in the western Pacific build airplane decoys out of bamboo to try to lure passing planes to land with their cargo. One sect even tries to hatch American Sailors from eggs. However in present day Fiji, vacation spot of the jet setters, the John Frum Party has become a major political force. How is this Cargo Cult any different from being Rapture Ready?

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07-12-2003, 04:10 PM	#31
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Or could it possibly be that you are clueless when it comes to interpreting scripture? It could be that I'm clueless. Because when I read " There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till�" and " All these things shall come upon this generation" and " This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" and " there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power" for some odd reason I think it is saying that that it's going to happen in the lifetime of those being addressed. I read Luke, sometime in the first century, clearly saying " This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled" and it doesn't sound the least bit obscure. It doesn't sound the least bit truthful either considering that it is now the twenty first century. Because it's not just one quote to be misunderstood. Book after book, author after author, quote upon quote�they all say the same thing. They say it in slightly different ways so if you are confused by some you'll get the message from the others. Jesus is coming back, there is going to be a rapture and it is going to happen in the first century CE. It doesn't give the exact date but it stresses again and again and again that "there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." They are all dead. Their great, great , great grandchildren are all dead. I might be clueless in interpreting scripture but I know bull shite when I see it and these gospels are loaded with it.

07-12-2003, 06:15 PM	#34
//riot of disorder:: Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: California Posts: 184	I believe the majority of the users on RaptureReady have affective schizophrenia. That is characterized by their constant postings of "I was attacked by demons in my sleep!" And they attack people different from them, and think that Harry Potter is evil. It amazes me that those people are able to use a computer without breaking it every 2 minutes. I concur with the John Frum analysis, and i'll end this post with my own. The difference between religous people and nonreligous people is this. You're watching a TV. Do you ever wonder how it works? What forces make the picture appear on the screen? Or do you just marvel at it and never question it's mechanics?

07-13-2003, 01:51 AM	#36
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Weren't the 4 Gospels written down in the beginning part of the 2nd century? If so-----------then obviously those who did transcribe those Gospels must have known that that generation HAD passed away--(especially considering the short life spans of the time)--- and therefore those writers were NOT taking that prophecy literally. Why should we? Which leads to the non-literal interpretation of that prophecy which Christians hold today. I do not see a problem here. Just atheist nit-picking.

07-13-2003, 04:05 AM	#39
Diadectes Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: England Posts: 211	Apologies for the almost-double posting there. See, told you there were things I was ignorant about - operating computers properly is one of them!

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