Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jamie_L · 01-31-2003, 01:17 PM

I once heard an interesting opinion on teaching girls about sexuality. I suppose it applies to boys too, but the speaker was talking about girls at the time.

The idea was that if you try to tell a girl how she is supposed to use and not use her body, you teach her that she is not the master of her body. You make it more likely that she will listen to other people who try to tell her how to use her body - people who may not want the same things for her that you do.

On the other hand, if you tell her that her body is hers to use or not use as she sees fit, then you teach her it's okay not only to say "yes" to sex but also to say "no". You teach her that her dersires, needs, safety, etc. come first, not the desires of the people telling her to do something.

It makes sense.

Jamie

Loren Pechtel · 01-31-2003, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Odemus
I wonder how many of you are willing to send your own daughters off to California to star in the next gang bang movie. Seriously, who here has every intention of teaching their own children that being a porn actor is an acceptable lifestyle?

I would hope that any daughter of mine (not that I have any) wouldn't be that promiscious. The camera wouldn't bother me, though.

So what if I happen to think pornography is having an increasingly negative impact on our society and world at large?

Thinking that doesn't make it true. What evidence there is seems to say that it doesn't. If there's any relationship, it's a liberalization of porno laws leads to a reduction in sex crimes.
Note also that there is a clear pattern that those involved in sex crimes have seen less porno than the average of the population.

I think a common sense look at the industry would tell you that. So what if I think that pornography (hard core) is exactly the same thing as prostitution. Go pick up a freaking dictionary.

So? I have no problem with prostitution, either. It's not for me but I have no problems with others engaging in it.

I've got a daughter to raise in this over sexed society where looks are prized far more than intellect. So what's a fella to do?

Don't repress sex. That tends to backfire.

tronvillain · 01-31-2003, 01:36 PM

Odemus:

Quote:

I wonder how many of you are willing to send your own daughters off to California to star in the next gang bang movie. Seriously, who here has every intention of teaching their own children that being a porn actor is an acceptable lifestyle?

I would never send my daughters off to star in a gang bang movie, but I would not necessarily have a problem with them choosing to go. Seriously, I have every intention of teaching my own children that being a porn star is a perfectly accepatable career.

christ-on-a-stick · 01-31-2003, 01:40 PM

So many good posts I want to reply to.

cjack - excellent points all.

Shake -

Quote:

I almost let porn hurt my marriage, but only by attempting to hide it from my wife. She said my dishonesty about viewing it was more hurtful than the viewing of it. In fact, now we, who have also been married 7 years, find that porn is a great way of getting things going sometimes! There are times when she'll just ask me to talk to her about what I've been looking at online, which really gets her going (because she knows it excites me)! I believe that porn can be a healthy part of a sexual relationship if both partners can communicate what they like, what makes them uncomfortable, and how much they need or want to use it.

This is a great example of how it wasn't the porn itself that was the issue but the lack of honesty/communication. I'm glad that you and your wife are now able to enjoy together as a way of spicin' things up! It can be fun...

I wanted to make sure to re-address this other topic one last time and lay it to rest in my own mind so to speak. Jamie_L wrote:

Quote:

On a different note: why all the recriminations over prostitution? Sure, a porn star isn't a prostitute and vice versa, but prostitution is as legitimate as pornography, as far as I'm concerned. Personal choices that don't hurt other people should be just that: personal choices. Abuse should be rooted out wherever it is found, but people who pay for sex or sell sex to other individuals should be free to do so. There is certainly a similarity between pornography and prostitution, in that sex and money are involved in both, but there are plenty of differences. But even if there are similarities, so what? Why should prostitution have such a stigma that everyone has to be indignant and say "I'm NOT a prostitute?"

As I read this I thought, y'know, I agree with this 100%. I'm not quite sure why I even bothered to get into debating the difference with Odemus, because the bottom line is I don't have a problem with prostitution being inherently immoral either! The only problems I have with it are A) its illegality in the US which causes all kinds of problems you don't see where it's regulated and B) any situation in which a woman is being coerced or forced into it. I guess I was drawn to arguing the differentiation with him not because I care if he thinks of me as a prostitute or not - it's no skin off my teeth - but because I was interested in what seemed to be lurking beneath the surface of his "roundabout", indirect comments that seemed to imply.... something. Now that I know what that "something is" - simply an entirely different POV - it's of no consequence, in my mind, to press the issue any further. I much prefer the exchange of ideas with those who can be both forthcoming with their experiences and POV's and receptive to others'.

Whew! My hands are tired now. Coffee break...

dangin · 01-31-2003, 01:52 PM

Don't sweat it Deacon, now that you are known as a cocksucker, you can suck as many as you like. Just give up on the whole bridge building thing.

COAS, Thanks for the bowing. But I don't think I deserve it for simply stating the obvious and true. You've been far braver in this thread than I and I applaud you for it, for your maturity, and for you level headedness.

Deacon · 01-31-2003, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dangin
Don't sweat it Deacon, now that you are known as a cocksucker, you can suck as many as you like. Just give up on the whole bridge building thing.

I just build bridges, I leave the cocksucking to the experts.

dangin · 01-31-2003, 02:52 PM

Oh I see, you are anti cocksucking. Don't bring your hate crimes in here.

Deacon · 01-31-2003, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dangin
Oh I see, you are anti cocksucking. Don't bring your hate crimes in here.

I'm not against cocksucking, I'm against ME sucking cock. I mean, when a dude blows a load in your mouth, what's the ettiquette of conversation afterwards? Does a simple high-five suffice?

dangin · 01-31-2003, 03:02 PM

OK, we need to stop this.

First, we're hijacking a perfectly good thread when we could just say these insults to each other. We share an office you twit.

Second, I don't think you are being sensitive to all the cocksuckers who might read this.

Third, Like you don't already know.

Viti · 01-31-2003, 04:19 PM

Basically Odemus, it appears your saying nothing more than "I don't like porn because I don't like it". You are entitled to your opinion, but you cannot sway others opinions without some sort of meaningful argument or evidence.

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01-31-2003, 01:17 PM	#81
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	I once heard an interesting opinion on teaching girls about sexuality. I suppose it applies to boys too, but the speaker was talking about girls at the time. The idea was that if you try to tell a girl how she is supposed to use and not use her body, you teach her that she is not the master of her body. You make it more likely that she will listen to other people who try to tell her how to use her body - people who may not want the same things for her that you do. On the other hand, if you tell her that her body is hers to use or not use as she sees fit, then you teach her it's okay not only to say "yes" to sex but also to say "no". You teach her that her dersires, needs, safety, etc. come first, not the desires of the people telling her to do something. It makes sense. Jamie

01-31-2003, 01:30 PM	#82
Loren Pechtel Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Not Mayaned Posts: 96,752	Originally posted by Odemus I wonder how many of you are willing to send your own daughters off to California to star in the next gang bang movie. Seriously, who here has every intention of teaching their own children that being a porn actor is an acceptable lifestyle? I would hope that any daughter of mine (not that I have any) wouldn't be that promiscious. The camera wouldn't bother me, though. So what if I happen to think pornography is having an increasingly negative impact on our society and world at large? Thinking that doesn't make it true. What evidence there is seems to say that it doesn't. If there's any relationship, it's a liberalization of porno laws leads to a reduction in sex crimes. Note also that there is a clear pattern that those involved in sex crimes have seen less porno than the average of the population. I think a common sense look at the industry would tell you that. So what if I think that pornography (hard core) is exactly the same thing as prostitution. Go pick up a freaking dictionary. So? I have no problem with prostitution, either. It's not for me but I have no problems with others engaging in it. I've got a daughter to raise in this over sexed society where looks are prized far more than intellect. So what's a fella to do? Don't repress sex. That tends to backfire.

01-31-2003, 01:52 PM	#85
dangin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Middle, Kansas Posts: 2,637	Don't sweat it Deacon, now that you are known as a cocksucker, you can suck as many as you like. Just give up on the whole bridge building thing. COAS, Thanks for the bowing. But I don't think I deserve it for simply stating the obvious and true. You've been far braver in this thread than I and I applaud you for it, for your maturity, and for you level headedness.

01-31-2003, 02:52 PM	#87
dangin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Middle, Kansas Posts: 2,637	Oh I see, you are anti cocksucking. Don't bring your hate crimes in here.

01-31-2003, 03:02 PM	#89
dangin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Middle, Kansas Posts: 2,637	OK, we need to stop this. First, we're hijacking a perfectly good thread when we could just say these insults to each other. We share an office you twit. Second, I don't think you are being sensitive to all the cocksuckers who might read this. Third, Like you don't already know.

01-31-2003, 04:19 PM	#90
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Basically Odemus, it appears your saying nothing more than "I don't like porn because I don't like it". You are entitled to your opinion, but you cannot sway others opinions without some sort of meaningful argument or evidence.

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