Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Proxima Centauri · 03-25-2003, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by B.Shack

I have given the matter consideration. I have some respect for Sakpo. He did what he thought was right. More important, he was prepared to admit what he did and take the consequences. How does that compare with Blue_Metal?
Developing hard and fast rules for the future is impossible. Every case of plagiarism or other immoral action, which comes up here, will be different. I feel we can make a few general rules.
Other things being equal we should protect infidels from believers. Many infidels are isolated and have no place to turn to except here.
Other things being equal we should value believers and believing institutions less highly than institutions, which respect the scientific method.
Here's what Gemma Therese, who says she's a Roman Catholic, thinks of logic. "God asks us to think, but to surrender our logic ... to use our mental capacity not so much to reason this and that, but to recognize that we will never reach Him with our mind alone." Gemma Therese says she goes to a Roman Catholic University. Is that what she learns there?

Believers can sometimes be very underhand when they think it right to undermine an infidel. I've mentioned before I went to a Roman Catholic school. When I was sixteen, shortly before I was due to take some important external exams a teacher sent me to fetch something from a drawer. When I opened that drawer I found inside sealed envelopes containing papers for those exams. I wanted to know what was in those envelopes. I resisted temptation and put them back unopened. To this day I do not know if the teacher who asked me to open that drawer made a genuine mistake or if the school set a trap for me. Did they want an excuse to stop infidel Barbara taking that exam?
If in doubt protect an infidel who is in trouble with believers, especially Roman Catholics. Sorry to repeat that.

Here's how Roman Catholics sometimes behave in a culture where they can get away with being really nasty!

Feather · 03-25-2003, 12:00 PM

The problems with higher education in this country are becoming worse (unless they're merely becoming more public; and frankly I don't know which one scares me more).

Plagiarism is, in no uncertain terms, evil. Or, at least, that's how strongly I feel that the act is wrong.

It is not just the business of the plagiarist and his peers and instructor. Plagiarism unchecked leads quite easily to a chaotic academic environment and stagnation. After all, if one must never think and perform on his own, why should anyone? Oh to be sure the select few that accept nothing short of personal excellence will transcend this mundane human normality. But most won't.

You can bet that if I have evidence enough to show somebody plagiarised I would send it right on to those that needed to know. And it wouldn't matter if the original act were completely unrelated to the circumstances of my life.

Plagiarism is little different from falsifying data from a science experiment, in my opinion. And in this context, I would unhesitatingly applaud Sakpo for his actions.

Bravo, sakpo.

nermal · 03-27-2003, 07:57 PM

I only skimmed this thread---it's long---so I may post a redundancy unknowingly, but...

In General, I believe material from a public forum like this should be forwarded to an authority only if someone is harming someone else in some way.
If for instance, BM had copied another student without her permission, and the other student were taking the rap, I would certainly forward any admission to such that BM were making on this forum.
BM's only victim, however, was herself. I would not have forwarded her postings I read on the other thread. I won't, however, condemn Sakpo for doing so, as what he did wasn't immoral, only meddlesome.
Furthermore, I saw no information on that thread that was relevent to BM's predicament. Whatever information Sakpo forwarded was doubtless already in the posession of the professor, or how would he know she plagarized? BM made no outright confession here, only spouted weak and disingenuous defences as she surely did to her professor. Had she threatened to harm the professor in some way in retribution, I would have forwarded the thread post-haste.

Ed

Calzaer · 03-27-2003, 11:55 PM

I agree with Feather, wholeheartedly.

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that there's something wrong with a society that uses the word "snitch" as a pejorative. There's no such thing as a "snitch". If BM hadn't violated the rules, she wouldn't have been in that mess. Period. Don't shift the blame onto the ethical person who caught you, take responsibility for your own unethical behavior.

I see other posters, and it sounds like they're saying: "How dare they infringe on your right to flout the rules! They were only LITTLE rules... LITTLE being defined in a completely subjective manner, obviously, by me. It's ok to break LITTLE rules and LITTLE laws, particularly if I don't agree with them and/or they don't cause blood to come spilling out of a random oriface."

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03-25-2003, 12:00 PM	#182
Feather Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 1,827	The problems with higher education in this country are becoming worse (unless they're merely becoming more public; and frankly I don't know which one scares me more). Plagiarism is, in no uncertain terms, evil. Or, at least, that's how strongly I feel that the act is wrong. It is not just the business of the plagiarist and his peers and instructor. Plagiarism unchecked leads quite easily to a chaotic academic environment and stagnation. After all, if one must never think and perform on his own, why should anyone? Oh to be sure the select few that accept nothing short of personal excellence will transcend this mundane human normality. But most won't. You can bet that if I have evidence enough to show somebody plagiarised I would send it right on to those that needed to know. And it wouldn't matter if the original act were completely unrelated to the circumstances of my life. Plagiarism is little different from falsifying data from a science experiment, in my opinion. And in this context, I would unhesitatingly applaud Sakpo for his actions. Bravo, sakpo.

03-27-2003, 07:57 PM	#183
nermal Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,969	I only skimmed this thread---it's long---so I may post a redundancy unknowingly, but... In General, I believe material from a public forum like this should be forwarded to an authority only if someone is harming someone else in some way. If for instance, BM had copied another student without her permission, and the other student were taking the rap, I would certainly forward any admission to such that BM were making on this forum. BM's only victim, however, was herself. I would not have forwarded her postings I read on the other thread. I won't, however, condemn Sakpo for doing so, as what he did wasn't immoral, only meddlesome. Furthermore, I saw no information on that thread that was relevent to BM's predicament. Whatever information Sakpo forwarded was doubtless already in the posession of the professor, or how would he know she plagarized? BM made no outright confession here, only spouted weak and disingenuous defences as she surely did to her professor. Had she threatened to harm the professor in some way in retribution, I would have forwarded the thread post-haste. Ed

03-27-2003, 11:55 PM	#184
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	I agree with Feather, wholeheartedly. Furthermore, I'd like to point out that there's something wrong with a society that uses the word "snitch" as a pejorative. There's no such thing as a "snitch". If BM hadn't violated the rules, she wouldn't have been in that mess. Period. Don't shift the blame onto the ethical person who caught you, take responsibility for your own unethical behavior. I see other posters, and it sounds like they're saying: "How dare they infringe on your right to flout the rules! They were only LITTLE rules... LITTLE being defined in a completely subjective manner, obviously, by me. It's ok to break LITTLE rules and LITTLE laws, particularly if I don't agree with them and/or they don't cause blood to come spilling out of a random oriface."

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