hezekiah jones

Originally posted by HelenM
At least his post had some substance.

You have got to be kidding.

Wyz_sub10

That much is obvious. But that says nothing about the validity or rationale of the belief. You are simply saying "believers believe because they do."

The obvious reason for calamity is that we have believers and skeptics? You might want to elaborate on this. I'm not sure what the WTC disaster had to do with skeptics. I'm pretty sure I know how believers were involved though.

So the polarity you said was the obvious reason isn't the reason after all. I'm confused. You are now saying that the attractiveness of sin and rebellion are the reason? Sin against what and rebellion against whom? Your god? Someone else's god? Looks like we're back to skeptics and believers again.

No. I suppose some do. I certainly don't think my mom is an "atheist waiting to happen." I'm pretty sure you're not either.

Crusades, Holy Wars, the promotion of hatred, ostracizing of minorities, forcible separation of families...

"Holding a grudge"?? Are you suggesting atheists are really "theists waiting to happen"?

I don't believe god exists, and I'm not offended by that at all. Anyone offended by god's absence is obviously a theist.

If by "pudding" you mean death, then I suppose that will be the litmus test. That "pudding" could also show that the One True God is my cat. (good thing I spoil Him)

Sure they do. Being sure doesn't mean being right. Most theists obviously don't think their ideals are false.

That means nothing. Galileo recanted his beliefs when faced with execution by loving, knowledge-fearing Christians. His recant had no relationship to the validity of this claims.

Because they believed they would be rewarded. So? It does not mean they were.

To who's satisfaction should I answer that?

How on earth is that off-topic from your polarized world where rebellion causes calamity and failure to recant makes something true? Pointing out the Crusades, etc. is perfectly on topic in addressing your comment on what causes pain (….like the Crusades, etc.)

Well, as long as you’re sure.

What’s a “false believer”? A Muslim? A Hindu? Then why not just say the Muslims and Hindus are worse than Christians?

To defend your own beliefs you have to espouse them first. I can’t see where you’ve done this anywhere in your post. I do, however, see you “speaking for the masses” of atheists, of which you are not one.

Well, more open-minded than Pat Robertson, to be sure.

I think Christians need to decide that for themselves. I, for one, am growing tried of talking to 10 Christians and getting 11 opinions on what god is like, what he does, what he thinks is ‘good’, what he thinks is ‘bad’.

To be honest, even when I was a Christian, I could never find two people who agreed on what god praised and admonished.

Because there are a lot of them, and they vote. Some even become president of the United States and have access to nuclear weapons.

Amen.

And once theists admit likewise, there will be less reason to :banghead:

ybnormal

Puritan:
BTW--Just curious as to exactly HOW is one 'hurt' by the so-called Church?? I realize humans aren't perfect and will let you down,but isn't holding a lifelong grudge a bit much??

Firstly, you queer both your questions by using the word "Church", implying that you are talking about the membership of a specific group of people, then confusingly, you use the word "humans", implying that you are talking about humanity itself and thus every single person on earth.

So, which group of people are you talking about here? Surely you don't suggest they are one and the same.

Secondly, with no evidence offered, you imply that folks are holding some lifelong "grudge" against the "Church", with the further implication that this is only because of "hurt" done in the past.

This of course completely ignores responsibility for such "hurt" that is occurring as we speak, which fully warrants any new or ongoing grudges, which folks have both the legal and moral right to hold against your said "Church".

Harumi

Puritan,

Some people were severely emotionally and or abused by their church going parents who were heavily influenced by their church.

Recently I heard of a church that was disbanded because they believed in the "Spare the rod and spoil the child". After their congregation was over, the "bad" children were dragged to the front and beaten as part of the service. Such things I'm sure, could cause lifelong emotional damage and hatred.

I'm not saying that hating all Christians because of this is rational. Far from it. But please understand that many people here have greatly suffered under Christianity. Luckily, I was born to a liberal family, in a liberal community, where freethinkers are abundant. I've never actually been hurt by the "Church" and so I feel little grudge against it.

My reasons for not believing in God does not stem from hatred at all. In fact, I volunteer and willingly help out at a church, and attend services if that should happen.

I will admit that some people do frustrate me though.

Oh, and welcome to iidb. I hope you stay. There are a great many people here, theists and atheists alike. I hope you find them.