Starboy

I do not have the same "truth" thing, I am a pragmatist. What I am advocating does sound familiar. Two excellent examples were the banning Facism and Soviet Communism. The world is a much better place without them. I think it would be an ever better place without religion.

Starboy

tdekeyser

We are not intolerant to Xians...

We are intolerant on the WAR THEY HAVE WAGED ON US!

We do not have in our beliefs of logic/reason and science to attck other faiths.

But it DOES tell us to DEFEND ourselves!

seebs

Er... The "war"? I'm not waging any wars. Most of the Christians I know aren't waging any wars.

Maybe you should fight intolerance, rather than a specific religion; more bathwater, less baby.

seebs

No, you're talking about banning personal beliefs, not about banning systems of government.

If what you want to do is push for clear separation between church and state, I'm all for it, and I agree - but this doesn't mean banning religion, it means a state policy of *ignoring* it.

And you do, indeed, have the same "truth" thing. You have asserted with certainty that a belief system you don't share in is wrong, and destructive, and should be eliminated, and that no one should be allowed to think or feel that way. That's what it is to "ban" religion. And it's just as wrong when you want to do it as it is when Christian fundies want to do it.

Starboy

seebs, you draw a very fine line. To use an analogy, my Christian neighbor has a huge family. Most of the children are fine, but 15% of them throw rocks, yell at my family. Snoop through my windows and try to tell me how to behave in my own home. I don't care about the other %85 percent. As far as I am concerned, they are out of control!

Starboy

seebs

Then you're committing the same error that the idiots who go on about the "immoral behavior of atheists" are committing.

When the other 85% of the family ask for your help in getting the problem kids to calm down, and point out that a bunch of your kids throw rocks at *their* house, maybe you should look for a better solution. See, the real problem is that your problem kids and their problem kids have a feud going, and all you can do by throwing rocks at the rest of the family is make it worse.

The line I'm drawing is a really big and obvious one: Which people are trying to eliminate the right to hold personal opinions on philosophical questions? That shouldn't be too hard.

Starboy

Why should it matter if my kids throw rocks or not? seebs, finally you may get my point! WHERE ARE ALL THE TOLERANT LOVING CHRISTIANS?

Starboy


[Edited to clarify my point.]

tdekeyser

What WAR??????

Where have you been????? The bible, hence Xianity has attacked every other faith especially non-believers.

Jerry Fallwell and Christians everywhere is at war with Barry Lynn, M Newdow, Barker and everyone else who supports INTOLERANCE.

They have waged WAR on us and just like Bush said, "LET"S ROLL!!!" I'm ready for this fight and I will be the first to stand up proud to say it!


Shall I post a million links to all the bible passages and CNN news clips? I can prove what I am saying you know....

wildernesse

Christians (and other believers) were not invited by the organizers of the Godless March to participate--they were told basically to stay out of it because it wasn't their march. So, most people did.

I don't like it when people barge in and intrude where I don't want them--so I applied this little rule to this situation and didn't go. I support your right to march for whatever reason you want to--but I didn't know that I have to go out and hold a sign up telling you bravo for doing what you've got a right to do.

(Oh, btw, Starboy, bravo for speaking your mind on an internet forum. Excercising your right to free speech, atta boy. You tell them. Do you want to be patronized???)

I also want to know about the war I'm waging on you, apparently Borgmaster at Christian High Command has not assimilated me well enough. I'm not full enough of straw yet.

I would also like to know how logic and science tell you to defend yourself--are you hearing voices? Back to supporting no evidence needed, are we. After all, atheists are the guardians of THE GREAT and ALMIGHTY TRUTH (tm)--and there's no need of rules when you're always right, is there tdekesyer. Why on earth does seebs see a resemblence between some atheists and fundies? He's got me there, Mr. Vigilante.

Sorry, I'm just to infuriated to think well right now and I'll probably have to come back and edit this stupid post when I've calmed down.

--tibac

seebs

Well, one of them is asking you to please stop announcing that the only possible solution is to have him subjected to electroshock therapy until he gives up his "false" beliefs.

Most of the time, we're sitting around our houses going about our business, working a day job, raising kids, and the like. We have stuff to do. Where we *aren't* is out picketing atheists, picketing funerals, and harassing people.

However, every time you announce that "religion should be banned", you make it that much harder for us to put up with your intolerant rants. I'm half-inclined to try to pair off fundies from both sides, lock 'em in boxes, and throw away the keys.

We're *all over the place* - and you simply ignore us, because we're not as *loud* as the bad kids.

Maybe the problem here is in your filters. Why don't you spend some time getting to know a few of the tolerant folks from various religions? You know, people like me, wildernesse, HelenM... those are the first three people that come to mind on IIDB.

See, I used to wonder where all the tolerant atheists were, but then I started getting to know some of 'em. CF's Brimshack is a great guy. Rufus is pretty cool. There's lots of atheists who are decent, honest, people, just going about their lives.

Those people, I have common cause with. You, so far, I don't. After the number of rocks you've thrown at my house, why exactly should I care if some idiot fundy is throwing rocks at yours?

Well, there *is* an answer, in my case; I should care because my religion says to. You don't seem to have an answer to that question, so you're happy to run around bashing moderate Christians in the name of fighting oppression they had nothing to do with.

If you want us to help with the Christian fundie problem, stop being part of the atheist fundie problem. Stop trying to argue that all religions should be destroyed, banned, or whatever. That's not a belief that religious people are likely to back, and it's not a particularly helpful one. In terms of "religion" as "belief system requiring conversion of outsiders", you're more religious than I am, kid.

As it happens, I'm gonna fight for your right to disagree with me no matter how much of a jerk you are - but if you want most people to do this, you're gonna have to agree to stick up for *their* right to disagree with *you*. It's a two-way street.