Calzaer

I'd like him to be a kind, caring, empathic, present being who never lets his followers feel lonely, always explains his actions, helps EVERY person in need, never lets children be murdered, kidnapped, or abused, is undeniably accessible 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and gives actual verbal responses to questions.

Unfortunately, God apparently isn't like that at all. He's cruel, apathetic, sadistic, distant being who acts arbitrarily, leaves most of his devout followers to die horribly while saving a random subset of others like shills at a carnival game, blithely allows children to be murdered, kidnapped, and abused, sometimes in His name, under the pretense of protecting the criminal's free will (which is obviously much more important than the child's, to God) is only truly accessible by priests (head ass-kissers) on Sundays or in confession booths, never responds in a direct or interpretable manner to questions (unless you can read omens), and causes his most devoted followers to suffer lonelieness and question their sanity.

And you wonder why, even if he DID exist, someone might refuse to worship him? :boohoo:

Bree

It helped her get past it temporarily, in my opinion. She was very scornful of the other ladies in the group who continued to "whine and cry" over their abuse - she thought of herself as having risen above us because she made her experience out to be "enlightening" (or something). It's very sad, in a way: the point of the group was that there are some things we couldn't change in our lives (our abuse being one of them) and the only thing we could change was how we viewed it, and if we would let it run our lives forever. I think she kind of took this to an extreme level.

lpetrich

Bree, some people seem like they are card-carrying members of the Dr. Pangloss Fan Club.

"This is the best of all possible worlds -- no matter what"

brighid

It only does if you believe in some ultimate evil. I do not need evil to justify any positive motive I have. I realize that good and bad will happen to all people, and that both shall befall me. Because I view this life as THEE only one I am ever going to get (existence of afterlife or none) I am motivated to do the best I can. I do not believe in some "evil" force, but rather that some men chose to take action that (depending on the POV) is evil. There is no "necessity" in evil in order that I (or anyone else) do what is right. Bad, evil, positive, negative, indifferent, or otherwise I simply view things as they are and enjoy the moment as it might be my last. I do what I feel is good, or right not because of a reward of heaven, or the threat of hell but because it is right/good and I hope others will follow by example.

The truly sad part of the notion of the "necessity of evil" is that some people have been conditioned to believe that without the threat of hell and damnation they (or others) would go around perpetrating all sorts of heinous crimes. How truly, and utterly depraved and pathetic that is. I truly feel sorry for people who have never developed (or rather had it retarded) an inner locus of control and motivation, and therefore require a supernatural carrot stick to behave.

Brighid

brighid

Debbie T,

You are welcome. Take care.

Brighid

MrDarwin

Nobody seems to want to touch the case of Lesley Ann Downey with a ten foot pole. Perhaps because what happened to her is indefensible, inexcusable, inhuman?

But my further question has also been ignored: if Lesley Ann perceived (rightly or wrongly) that God had ignored her prayers for help, and because of that perception she came to disbelieve in God before she was murdered, does that mean Lesley Ann is damned to suffer eternally? That she went straight from the frying pan into the fire, so to speak?

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Debbie T
So the rapist did her a favor then?

Sounds like it. If the "refiner's fire" is actually a good thing, then logically, the rapist should not be jailed or anything. He should be set free in order that he may bring the refining fire of rape to many more women who may (ultimately) benefit from the experience.

This reminds me of a grotesque fundy novel called The Atonement Child where the heroine is brutally raped and becomes pregnant; God assures her that "I tear apart so that I may heal". He was that bored?

Debbie T

Very extreme Bree, IMO. I think this will come back an bite her some day as I think she is not dealing with it. But the one thing that struck me here was how this would be on someone's self esteem. Rape takes a lot of it away but that attitude she had would seem to keep you there.

I agree that at some point you have to change the view and not let it continue to be in control of your life, but not too early and certainly not by avoiding it.

Now something similar I think is that having gone through what we went through we certainly have a lot more compassion for others that have walked through this and we can say that is a good thing that has come from it. I hope this woman was able to deal with her rape on a less extreme level. Perhaps though I shouldn't judge knowing the trauma she went through this may be her only coping mechanism she could handle at the time. I wouldn't recommend it though.

Debbie T

Shudder. I wonder if I could handle a book like that. Probably it would be thrown in the fire place.

Tear apart to heal? Like stabbing someone so that stitches may be given so that the person can heal? Gross!

Bree

That viewpoint, QoS, seems to be widespread. If I had a dime for every time someone said "a broken bone only heals stronger..." I'd be rich.