Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Tom Sawyer · 09-26-2002, 12:35 PM

Both of those incidents that your brother experienced could be due to psychosomatic placebo reactions to the prayer.

Some people are cured by taking a sugar pill they think is medicine and some people are cured by prayer they think someone is listening to.

Ask your brother why God bothered to cure his foot pain, but couldn't be bothered to intervene to save all the Christians who died in traffic accidents and of cancer this past year.

MarcoPolo · 09-26-2002, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by peteyh:
Ask your brother why God bothered to cure his foot pain, but couldn't be bothered to intervene to save all the Christians who died in traffic accidents and of cancer this past year.

I've actually asked things similar to that. I've asked why god only seems to answer prayers when they seem inconsequential. Heal a tiny foot pain or a seasonal cough? Why not heal a child dying of cancer or restore a persons badly burned face?

He uses the 'God is perfect and just and we'll know the reasons when we get to heaven.'

cydonia · 09-26-2002, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lisarea:


It seems relatively harmless on the face of it, but stuff like this can exacerbate obsessive compulsive disorders, pointless magical thinking, and various other limiting behaviors.

I'd be interested in reading more on this aspect if you have any recommendations on where i could learn more.

I have OCD (i've only known a few months but it seems obvious now) and it's not something i really ever think about, i think i'm more obsessive. I obsess a lot about religion, sin, the universe, etc. for reasons that come from my childhood conditioning.

Before becoming agnostic (i think this is the first time i've actually said that online or to anyone) i went from scared to death of satan and jesus to the new age magical thinking you were discussing. The universe is pure affluence and energy, just release your desires and the universe will do all the work. You are responsible for everything that happens to you (even getting slapped as a little kid) and this is a learning experience to prepare for a higher plane of existence and energy.....bah. Now it just seems like an excuse not to take any concrete action. It's embarassing to say, but i think that was my problem. Always looking for coincidences that would prove my manifestations were coming true, that i wouldn't have to work hard to find a job or make friends or meet a nice girl or get over shyness, just trusting the universe and releasing my desires.........

The closest thing i've heard of that deals with the obsessing on this issue is scrupulosity, which is a form of ocd, but all books i've seen that are supposed to help you are from the church. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Didn't mean to derail the thread.

[ September 26, 2002: Message edited by: cydonia ]

Rosiel · 09-26-2002, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by galiel:

Same mystical superstitious mumbo jumbo. All you did was replace the anthropomorphic "god" with an equally purposeful but ever-more-hip "universe".

I figured someone would call me on that.

I was joking (which you noticed) but I agree that people tend to do that.

Opera Nut · 09-30-2002, 12:33 AM

Not my problem. I don't have those lucky breaks. I have been screwed royally by the system, and I am a good kid. I get punished for telling the truth. In fact I get punished and yelled at by nutty bosses even if I do perfect work. That's why I am a wreck.

I used to be middle class but my career was destroyed by the attorneys in the legislature and I fell into the class of "I have a doctorate and barely surviving class".

Extremely high education and skill level, unable to find a job at all because the world is run by idiots. My friend is also highly skilled, was unemployed for many yeras, and has a shitty job way below his abilities. WE only have six college degrees between the two of us.

I also used to be a Xtian. I prayed a lot and decided god wanted me to starve to death because "his peopel" in the church would not help me find a job. I also got suicidal from sitting in church crying my eyes out hearing about what kind of worthless pieces of shit all people were.

I had a screamign hissy fit at a preacher one day who preached about how awful King David was and sinful bla bla. I told him his sermons made me wanna crawl into a hole and die!!! They all lookd shell shocked.

I have a little bit more self respect now but I still feel like a total failure without a job.

PopeInTheWoods · 09-30-2002, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarcoPolo:
My brother is one to give credit to god everytime something good happens.

He uses a couple to try and convince me.

One time he was 'praying' (with my other brother) that his daughter would be healed of this seasonal coughing that lasts for weeks each winter or so. She was coughing during the prayer and immediately stopped and hasn't since coughed once her name was uttered.

The other time is when he was on his way to a soccer match and his foot was hurting. He said he bent down and prayed that it stop hurting and it did.

I tried to explain that there was probably a reason for it to stop at that instant. I mean, if it was going to stop hurting at some time, it was just coincidence that it happened then. Same thing with the coughing. What if the coughing was related to her age? Maybe her immune system got stronger and just coincidentally it happened at the time he was praying?

He doesn't accept any other theory though. God did it and that's it.

My guess is you'll never hear from him about the hundreds of other things he prayed for on those days that didn't happen.

Andy

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09-26-2002, 12:35 PM	#11
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	Both of those incidents that your brother experienced could be due to psychosomatic placebo reactions to the prayer. Some people are cured by taking a sugar pill they think is medicine and some people are cured by prayer they think someone is listening to. Ask your brother why God bothered to cure his foot pain, but couldn't be bothered to intervene to save all the Christians who died in traffic accidents and of cancer this past year.

09-30-2002, 12:33 AM	#15
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	Not my problem. I don't have those lucky breaks. I have been screwed royally by the system, and I am a good kid. I get punished for telling the truth. In fact I get punished and yelled at by nutty bosses even if I do perfect work. That's why I am a wreck. I used to be middle class but my career was destroyed by the attorneys in the legislature and I fell into the class of "I have a doctorate and barely surviving class". Extremely high education and skill level, unable to find a job at all because the world is run by idiots. My friend is also highly skilled, was unemployed for many yeras, and has a shitty job way below his abilities. WE only have six college degrees between the two of us. I also used to be a Xtian. I prayed a lot and decided god wanted me to starve to death because "his peopel" in the church would not help me find a job. I also got suicidal from sitting in church crying my eyes out hearing about what kind of worthless pieces of shit all people were. I had a screamign hissy fit at a preacher one day who preached about how awful King David was and sinful bla bla. I told him his sermons made me wanna crawl into a hole and die!!! They all lookd shell shocked. I have a little bit more self respect now but I still feel like a total failure without a job.

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