Buffman

Dark Jedi

If you haven't had an opportunity to review this...

<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~candst/madvetos.htm" target="_blank">http://members.tripod.com/~candst/madvetos.htm</a>

...you might wish to do so. It will be difficult, if not impossible, for Capt Kidd to dispute the info contained there.

ybnormal

The same year, in the early Sixties, 63 or 64 I think, that the first Blacks were admitted to our small Southern town's public schools, almost overnight, virtually every large vacant house in town was converted into an "Academy", or "Private School". (of course, this would be the same town that refused to fly its courthouse flag at half staff when President Kennedy was assassinated)

Within a year, almost every white church had its own Christian Academy, and the public schools were stripped of white kids. The poorest white families were "helped" financially by the churches and fine xian leaders, who then further "socially encouraged" them until they ALL went to an all white Christian Academy. Had to be unanimous. Complete capitulation, and handed the entire school system over to the Feds and the Blacks.

Forty years later...

If anyone really thinks that the xian Repubs are doing anything different now, with this so-called School Voucher Program, please don't be surprised if or when you see that happen with your own eyes. It would be just another complete capitulation to the Feds and a different heathen, but this time, with your tax money in hand. (money was the only reason most of those Academies failed) This has long been the plan of the xian leadership control freaks, intent on shifting public funds into private xian schools.

To those who wonder why the public school system is failing, just ask, "Who alone, would gain from its complete failure?" You don't have to kill a sick thing outright and publicly... just don't stop the bleeding, while everyone else is distracted with court fights over prayer and the 10 Cees.

But hey, look at the good side... it could be argued that this would be an admission of impending xian defeat in their current prayer and 10 Cees legal shell game.

Alonzo Fyfe

Ouch. I knew that I would live to regret the decision not to continue that particular debate. It makes me look like I surrendered.

In fact, I believe that the public school system -- like the government post office -- is a breeding ground for medeocracy and stagnation, and I would much rather see competition among private schools for educational dollars.

Should the first amendment be interpreted as prohibiting the government from seeking to purchase educational value from private schools?

I think such an interpretation is unjustifiably broad.

Anyway, on a slightly related matter, this is a strange discussion to get into at the far end of a thread entitled "school prayer."

Perhaps one of you would like to create a thread called "school vouchers", reference these two threads, and post an opening salvo there. Then, perhaps, we can draw a few others -- not curious enough to dig down into this thread -- into an interesting debate.

Captn Kidd

Dispute the info there? Not only difficult or impossible, but bloody unlikely, as I agree with it.

Mr. Pitkin certainly misinterpreted the first ammendment, thinking it only barred establishment of a national religion. Had his understanding been correct or even common, one would have expected congress to convincingly override Madison's veto.

I get the distinct feeling that I don't understand what you were driving at. The content of this link confirms my impression that Madison didn't subscribe to the very narrow interpretation, that the only activity barred was the establishment of a national religion.

Buffman

Captn Kidd

All is well! I thought that Dark Jedi was challenging your post...which initially caused me a little concerned confusion. I now understand that your views about Madison's position concerning religion and government intanglements is identical with my own. A strict separation, through government neutrality, well beyond the national religion concerns.

Alonso Fyfe

I agree! Though Vouchers (because of government financing) certainly have a major impact on C-S issues, the specifics of education do not lend themselves to a comprehensive discussion in this forum. However, I tend to become rather concerned and vocal when I find Freethinkers advocating, what I believe is, increased religious indoctrination and divisiveness in our nation paid for with public funds...especially when the evidence behind the claims being made about our public school system, and the advantages of private schools, is based more on fiction than fact.

Captn Kidd

Well, Buffman seems like an agreeable chap, doesn't he, Alonzo?

{Edited because I apparently can't spell.}

[ August 27, 2002: Message edited by: Captn Kidd ]</p>

Dark Jedi

Thanks

Dark Jedi

Not challenging. It sounded like interesting info, and I like to have references before I accept an idea as true. I suppose my habit of being blunt and to the point can be easily misinterpreted.