HelenM

Could you please quote chapter and verse where it says Christians may commit acts of violence against those people whom the Bible condemns under the Levitical law? I thought Jesus said to 'turn the other cheek'

So Christians can commit acts of violence against who? Active homosexuals? Pregnant young women who aren't married? People who don't worship the God of the Bible?

Helen

hezekiah jones

Go Christians! We'll find a True Christian™ yet!

Radorth

Oh I forgot. He broke a table leg.

Peter was not a Christian. Jesus clearly says he wasn't converted.

Perhaps you should read the Bible before commenting on it. Somebody might listen to you.

Those who have saving faith have works to prove it Helen. James is quite clear on that.

Rad

HelenM

I think James was stating the obvious, that faith without works is useless, i.e. pointless, of no value.

I don't think he was making a theological pronouncement about eternal destinies. His letter is very practical.

But anyway, the debate has raged on between Christians for centuries over whether all True Christians have works to prove it. If James was that incontrovertible I think Christians wouldn't still be debating the issue...

Anyway, until Christians can even agree on what 'works' are, it doesn't mean a whole lot to say all those with saving faith have works to prove it. It's a test that can't be carried out until there is that agreement.

Helen

braces_for_impact

No true Scottsman...

MrDarwin

Radorth, I certainly hope you are being sarcastic, and that you are ridiculing that pastor for making unfounded assertions. Let's look at some of the numbers, shall we?

Teen pregnancy: after steadily increasing through the 1970's and 1980's, the teen pregnancy rate has decreased steadily (and rather precipitously) since the early 1990's, and is now below the 1970 rates.

Abortion: the number of abortions reached its peak in the United States around 1990, and since then has steadily decreased, approaching the lower levels of the 1970s, shortly after the Roe v. Wade decision.

Suicide: after a slight but steady increase through the 1960's, 1970's, and early 1980's suicide rates have steadily decreased through the 1990's in the United States, and are now approaching the relatively low rates of the 1950's. (Interestingly, the highest rates of suicide are lowest in the northeast and highest in the southeast, southwest and west (with the exception of some parts of California and the Pacific northwest)--in other words, suicide rates are highest in the "bible belt".)

Violent crime: after rising steadily through the 1980's and early 1990's, the rates of both homicide and violent crimes in general have steadily (and rather drastically) decreased since around 1994.

Other crime: property crime rates have been steadily decreasing since the mid-1970's.

Now, I'm sure Radorth will somehow turn these numbers around to show... well, actually I'm curious to see what he does with them since I have no idea if the number of Christians is increasing, decreasing, or staying the same. (Part of the problem is that defining "Christian" is rather slippery, as not even Christians can agree on who is and who isn't. For example, should we include Mormons in that number? How about Catholics? The best data I could find indicates that the total number of Christians, apparently as self-defined, is increasing slightly, but not at the same rate that the population is increasing.)

I might also note that oddly enough, all these things started going down right around the time Bill Clinton became President. Coincidence, Rad???

ju'iblex

so... lemme get this straight... people have to get engaged before they can hold hands, make puppy dog eyes or fall in love?

Yellum Notnef

This would explain why the bible belt has the highest divorce rate in the country.

Ab_Normal

But he seemed to have something against figs

MrDarwin

Thanks for bringing up divorce--the divorce rate rose rapidly in the United States between 1965 and 1975, but has been steadily decreasing since then.

But whether divorce rates are highest in the "bible belt", or whether rates in that area have increased or decreased (or decreased at a greater or lesser rate than the U.S. as a whole), I don't have any information.