Rhea

Another thing I'm curious about.

Some Christians will pften remark that of course Jesus _said_ it would be hard to follow the straight & narrow path. And how Atheists are all just people too lazy to be True Christians™. Looking for the easy out of not being accountable.


But, when I think about it, a couple of things come to mind.

1) What does that have to do with Salvation by faith? Nothing. being too lazy to follow rules has nothing to do with Faith. Not a thing, really. It doesn't take much effort to believe. It's the fruits that take work. Fruits which are supposed to be more desireable after one has taken the step of faith, making them less onorous to pursue.

and

2) Should the Jews be saying this about the Christians? Aren't Christians just too lazy to live by the old Jewish rules? Looking for the easy out of Faith in Jesus? Abraham _said_ it would be hard...


Hmmm. Just a stray thought.

Rhea

Thought three just occurred - the corollary:

Jesus said it would be a hard path to follow [believeing in him and following his rules]

3) He was saying this to JEWS? The national standard under glass for hard-to-follow-rules? He was telling them it would be hard to drop all but 2 and believe in him? ???

I ate Pascal's Wafer

Whenever I get that argument I wonder why they think it would be so hard to follow the path of righteousness. I know that if somebody held a gun to my head and told me to dig a ditch I wouldn't think it was hard at all to dig that ditch in order to avoid getting killed. You would think that trying to avoid the wrath of GAWD would be plenty of motivation to follow his little rules.

-Nick

Pyrrho

They are not being good Christians by not following the law. According to the book of Matthew, here is what Jesus had to say on this:

If they really cared what Jesus had to say, they would follow ABSOLUTELY ALL of the old Jewish laws. But this is just another example of the general hypocrisy of Christians, who commonly say they believe things because of what the Bible has to say but then they completely ignore it, and make up non-existent commandments (e.g., nowhere in the Bible is there any prohibition on abortion, etc.).

Rhea

On that, I think it's claimed that his presence "fulfilled" everything and so that's how they do away with all the Jewish Laws.

Which can be debated.

But still, so if it's true, it still means that everything is suddenly EASIER. So why would he say it's a hard path to follow?

Unless he DID mean that the law was still in effect, only now you ALSO had to believe in him. That's the only way it would be harder than for those around them.




Strange.

spurly

It is much harder to live a life of love prompted by grace and faith than it is to follow a list of guidelines that tell you exactly what to do.

Kevin

Rhea

Not true. Most people respond to positive reinforcement better than negative. any childcare specialist (who isn't fundy) will agree.

You don't give kids a list of rules. You give them love & show examples.

"Much harder"? I don't think so.

To live "good" because it feels right instead of because it's a hugely long arbitrary list? I don't think so.

Rhea

What's hard, exactly about being good because you're trying to live like someone you admire?

As compared to living against a list handed down which is very restrictive - much MORE restrictive than the feel-good religion?

Pyrrho

There are many "prophecies" that have yet to be fulfilled; the Second Coming of Jesus is a good example of this, along with the destruction of the earth as we know it, and (according to Matthew) Jesus said that every detail of the law should be followed until all is fulfilled. Indeed, what would be the sense of the phrase "Till heaven and earth pass" if we are to ignore the law before the end of the earth as we know it? And how could he say: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil", if he intended that his presence would destroy the law? Obviously, Jesus' First Coming did not destroy the law; otherwise, Jesus would be lying when he said that.

I take it that that is precisely what the verse means, that, in addition to following the law, you now must believe in Jesus and do as he says. And giving additional requirements always makes things harder. But most "Christians" ignore the Bible, and do as it pleases themselves. They don't want to be bothered with following the laws, even though Jesus Himself explicitly told them to follow the laws.

The whole point of the passage I sited is that Jesus is not letting people off the hook, so to speak, and still expects people to obey God's laws. Do they imagine that God changed His mind about what people ought to do? That the laws were some sort of mistake? That people don't need to do as God commands?

What makes this whole matter all the more absurd is that "Christians" typically quote the "10 Commandments" as being things that we should do, yet they are part of the law of the Old Testament. If the law were abolished, then there would be absolutely no reason to follow the "10 Commandments". Consistency is evidently not a "Christian" virtue.

Pyrrho

Furthermore, the passage I mentioned above is not the only place where Jesus tells that one should obey the law. Consider Matthew 19:

This particular story is about a particular conversation, but it fits in perfectly with the general command of Jesus that I previously quoted.

Again, one must obey the law. And do more than just that. The idea that one doesn't need to follow the law goes against what Jesus repeatedly stated, yet "Christians" choose to ignore His word.

They would do well to remember Matthew 5 (quoted more completely in an earlier post):

Those pretended "Christians" who ignore God's laws, who do not exceed "the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees" should expect Hellfire and damnation for their wickedness, which, indeed, is what they richly deserve.