Jayhawker Soule

According to <a href="http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/deadsea.scrolls.exhibit/Library/psalms.html" target="_blank">This Reference</a> with reference to 11QPs:

Haran

Darn back button... Sorry for the double post.

[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: Haran ]</p>

Jayhawker Soule

This may be a bit extreme. The "please sit quietly in the back of the room until such time as you obtain your degree in Textual Criticism" approach, while a reasonable guideline for entering an academic debate among professionals, would make for a rather sparse forum. I, for one, was very pleased to discover Tov to be quite readable, and I'm confident that forums such as this will help fill the significant gaps in my understanding.

Pandora

&lt;Pandora orders loads of books from Amazon and climbs into own box to hide.&gt;

I’m actually studying for a degree in Divinity and as I’m doing it on my own at home, I’m afraid here is the only place I get to try things out.

I really appreciate it when people correct me and give suggestions as it’s hard to criticize and give feedback to yourself.

I’m sure I’ll post lots of other dire gaffs, and I apologise in advance – but hopefully things will get better.

CX

Through which institution? I've considered this myself given that I have neither the time nor can I justify the resources required to get a divinity degree through a traditional in person attendance kind of program.

Kosh

Haran,

could you chime in on this? What is your opinion?
Does Psalms 90:4 support 2 Peter? Do other
biblical scholars believe this to be case?
Did the concept even exist before 2 Peter, or
do agree that it's a modern interpretation to
backfit Genesis into scientific observations?

Thanks.

Pandora

Cowboy X:

I'm doing the degree with the University of London external programme - the degrees are exactly the same as if you were an attending student. They have 28,000 students in 159 countries.

The BD is taught by Heythrop College. Jesuit originally, but accepts all. You have ten modules to complete - 5 compulsory and 5 optional, and between three and eight years to complete the course. You study on your own at home and take the exams at designated centres in your own country.

The cost is very reasonable - about £250 sterling the first year and then about £130 the other years plus £98 for each exam.

They've been running these external courses for over 150 years so they're really well organised. And University of London is worth the paper it's written on.

CX

I'm not really sure that is what Haran is saying. I know I find it frustrating when someone posts original language text, one presumes to illsutrate a point, and then clearly has not the slightest clue what the text actually says. I certainly don't mean to disparage Pandora here, but the Greek posted does not match the English which makes it look like it's used simply for effect. If one is going to do text-critical analysis of ancient texts in the original language one should have some basic understanding of the language. I don't think its academic snobery to suggest as much. I freely admit that I have only the most basic understanding of Koine Greek. But given enough time I can work out Greek texts and form a cogent opinion about them.

Haran

This was most definitely not what I meant.

Exactly, CowboyX. I don't mean to be disparaging either, but posts like Pandora's mislead people (however unintentional) with a false aire of authority. This is bad whether it comes from a theist or an atheist.

There is no reason why people can't discuss issues such as these, but one should be very careful about stating things in such an absolute way. It would be especially nice to see sources for facts that are stated (at least once in a while) since most here probably use books or websites for the information they bring into the discussion anyway.

You're right. Tov is quite readable. I'm sure that one can pick up on and understand a lot of what he says. However, I said that one might not "fully grasp" Tov's work without a "knowledge of the languages (among other things)". Certainly, if you do not understand Hebrew you will not grasp the finer nuances of the language covered by Tov. For instance, on page 228 near the bottom you will find: "Nouns of the Pe-Yod pattern are usually written plene...." I'm not sure, but I doubt that many here, without having read some about the language, would understand what a Pe-Yod pattern or what "written plene" means. Without this understanding, I believe it is hard to "fully grasp" Tov's work.

Thanks,
Haran

Haran

Depending on what you're studying, IMHO, there are better places to "try things out". There are more scholarly forums where mistakes are less likely to go unnoticed. If you're studying Hebrew, there the B-Hebrew list. If Greek, there's the B-Greek list. If Textual Criticism, there's the TC list.

<a href="http://dreamwater.org/bccox" target="_blank">My website</a> has these lists and plenty more located under the heading <a href="http://dreamwater.org/bccox/index.html#ADL" target="_blank">"Academic Discussion Lists"</a>.

Good attitude! I often need correction too as I am also not a scholar, just a very interested layman.

I'm sure they will. I do hope you understand my main point about qualifying what you say. Back up what you say with a source and make sure you state guesses or opinions as such. I'm still learning...

BTW, I was serious about the books I mentioned above. They are all excellent resources. Most of all, have fun!

Sincerely,
Haran