A. Milos

Milos' law:

If we gave 100 ethical questions to any number of christians, there would not be any two of them agreeing on all 100 answers.

ManM

Hey Bill, just for the sake of amusement: What's wrong with equating 'good' and 'God'? Why do we consider some actions to be good and some others evil? Is it due to some intrinsic goodness in the action? That doesn't seem very reasonable, as the situation has an effect on the 'goodness' of an act. Goodbye ten commandments... Anyway, we can then say that goodness must be something separate from the action.

And so you have this goodness which is separate from the world of action, yet the world of action partakes in it. Now if someone wishes to consider this force to be God, where is the problem?

Got Plato?

Peter P.

Actually it is also said in the Bible that Jesus sinned once, by leaving his parents to talk to Jewish scholars as a child. Furthermore, many Christians believe it is not what the Bible says to but the actions of Jesus are the roots of Christian values. The law given to Moses was dictated, however, the actions of Jesus, the founder and leader of Christianity, are often contrary to some of the laws handed down by God. Furthermore, Christianity has been updated by society to include more modern views, ie not killing people for breaking the Sabbath (although I know this seems ironic because God isn't supposed to make mistakes...).
Once again, Jesus's teachings and actions in the New Testemant not dictations from the Old are the foundings of Christianity.

Lastly, the debater you are trying to thwart posed a serious and rather scholarly responce to your uneducated posts on Christianity. You should thank him not try to dispute what he has pointed out, whether you disagree or agree. Furthermore, read the Bible...

Peter P.

Peter P.

Oh I almost forgot, your post on capital punishment and how Christians use the Bible to argue for it...well, I believe the majority of Christiandom has condemned capital punishment as "playing God", and that you cannot equate one murder with another...


Peter P.

lpetrich

According to some Marxists, "there is nothing on which Lenin does not contradict himself several times." The Bible sometimes seems like that, with the OT decreeing death for breaking the Sabbath and the NT saying that it is OK to work on the Sabbath. Which strongly suggests that it is some mishmash of documents rather than a self-consistent text.

This also makes it possible to take what one likes and leave what one does not like. The Sabbath example is only one of many; another example is how the OT forbids pork and shellfish while the NT says that those are OK foods.

A. Milos

Christians substituted the natural (ethnic) gods of people with the anthropomorphic god of the Jews, where Jehovah is among the most barbaric gods ever believed by people.

The foundation of Paul's chistianity is the Old Testament. Without it there can be no christianity. However, since Jehovah contradicts Jesus, they make Jesus say things like I did not come to annul the law but to complete it. Of course, Jesus never said what he came to annul and what to complete.

At the same time christians treat religion like an ever changing set of values or commands (one conflicting the other) that changes with the needs of society, not realizing that a religion by definition cannot change with fashion.

God was barbaric but Jesus came and made him more civilized. People did not interpret right the new book 13 centuries ago, but we do now. The christian next door is wrong about whether his daughter should have pre marital sex, and my friend is not sure whether a homosexual can go to heaven.

Should America wage war in Iraq or in Serbia? Under what religious (not politiacal) principles is such a war acceptable? Should a christian soldier fight in any army, and if yes, under what religious principles?

Should a christian accept Islam or should he try in any and all ways to convert Islamists into christians? If not, was the forced conversion of innumerable people a sin? If yes, should the American or European society tolerate any other non-christian belief an religion?

Does sweet Jesus agree with capital panishment or even puting prisoners in jail - I can suggest, under the christian 'turn the other cheek' that when a rapist rapes your wife, you invite him home and make available your daughter also.

So can any christian tell us what are the rules of their game?

excreationist

Where in the Bible does it say that?

I thought God was the unchanging "I am". So anyway, Jesus explicitly said that anyone who divorces if an affair wasn't involved commits adultery. (Matt 19:9) And in 1 Cor 7:10-11 God (not Paul) says that divorce is undesirable, but if a woman (or a man?) is divorced, they can never marry someone else. Yet in the O.T. divorce was a lot easier. So we should go with the N.T., as you say. So what if the woman is beaten and even raped in marriage? Jesus told people to "turn the other cheek" and even did this himself. Paul also did this (I think).

I know that Christians have comprised their morality, but Jesus said that the most important commandments are to love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and to love your neighbour as yourself. Jesus even did this. Anyway, since the first part involves Christians totally loving God, surely this means faithfully following Jesus's teachings?

But Jesus's life fulfilled many of the prophecies in the O.T. And as I said already, Christians are meant to love God with ALL their heart, mind, soul and strength. This implies avoiding things that God hates, such as homosexual sex and not listening to the "world".

I agree that the other poster was serious but I disagree with your idea that yygke is "rather scholarly". Well since he didn't bother defending himself I guess it's good that someone else did.

Thanks yygke, for telling me what Christians believe. I was one for about 18 years anyway so I think I know what they believe.

Well for starters I'd like to read the part you described which says that Jesus sinned a single time and this happened when he visited the temple as a child.

Well in the O.T. God orders it a lot, as part of their civil laws for things like homosexual sex. In the N.T. Jesus stops the adulterous woman from receiving any punishment at all. So then do you think that a Christian society shouldn't punish anyone? Also, if killing people is playing God, what about in times of war? Is it better to "turn the other cheek" as Jesus did (and he even healed a man who had his ear chopped off by a disciple) or to risk people being killed at the hands of your countrymen?

Dirk the Daring

No, Christians do not have an objective morality, because basing morality on the instructions of a deity (even if we stipulate that the deity is real) is no more objective than basing it on anything else.

There is no such thing as "objective" morality because morality does not exist in the world. Morality is bias, or to put it another way, delusion.

Emotions such as compassion do exist. If a person feels compassion then they will act in a manner that is consistent with that feeling, regardless of their religious convictions or lack thereof. But saying things like "you SHOULD act compassionately" is like trying to graft a second head on your shoulders.

HelenM

Actually, Peter, the Bible says For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin -- Hebrews 4:16

What makes you say the Bible claims Jesus leaving his parents was 'a sin' when the Bible clearly says in the above passage that Jesus was without sin? It would be at the top of the lists of Bible contradictions if you were right .

If you always do what God wants then you never sin. Obviously, based on the Hebrews passage, God wanted Jesus to leave his parents and talk to the Jewish scholars. Therefore he did not sin in doing so.

love
Helen

[ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]</p>

DRFseven

And in two words, Hell, no.

Don't we have a giggle icon?