Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mark9950 · 04-14-2003, 07:14 PM

Different?

I have visited SAB numerous time and the websites owner agenda/spin what ever you would call it to me looks like that it is supported with what he gives.

Certain bible verses sound wierd and anomolies that do not make sense to my thinking and perception of today.

Like the verses that insinuate that the earth is flat.

We all know that it is a sphere or ball(there is a word for ball in the hebrew language,but it was not used to describe the earth in the OT)

I am pretty sure that if a God did create the earth round it would have known it created it round like a sphere or ball and write the truth.

It sounds to me like the question is who made who?

Magus55 · 04-14-2003, 07:46 PM

No Mark, the verse about the Earth states its circular. Could it refer to flat too in relation to the horizon? Yes, but why assume it? And in Hebrew, there is no direct word which means sphere. Yes, Duwr means ball, but it also in the same defintion means circular ( not spherical). Certain words in Hebrew, can't be used interchangeably to describe words which don't exist. Duwr in Hebrew, does not necessarily refer to a sphere, it depends on the context of it. And how do we know, that the verse explaining a circular earth didn't use Duwr in the context of it being spherical? The Bible writers knew the Earth was suspended over nothing and relational to the sun and moon.

The shape of the earth is a very poor argument, because if you were to read the original hebrew, it would make clear sense as to what they meant. It gets skewed in translation.

ex-xian · 04-14-2003, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maguss55
The shape of the earth is a very poor argument, because if you were to read the original hebrew, it would make clear sense as to what they meant. It gets skewed in translation.

Amazing that such a tender, loving, mericful, father-god would stake humanities eternal souls upon such an ambiguous language.

BadBadBad · 04-16-2003, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
How could God allow what to happen? The Garden of Eden to be buried and destroyed? It had no purpose after the fall of humanity. The world was no longer perfect, so it was left to be destroyed. You also have to prove that what that article is talking about is in fact the Garden of Eden. It was most likely in that general area, but not necessarily what the article is talking about.

Magus,

Now all of the sudden, you want all this proof. What is it with that? We were just talking about Genesis in SAB Contradictions. Here you make a lot of baseless assertions about Genesis 2 being a summary of Genesis 1 from Adam's perspective. Then you support those assertions with "Just because you don't like the explanation, doesn't mean its wrong." Is this the kind of proof you're looking for?

In the SAB contradictions thread, Magus is forced either to admit a contradiction or that God created plants everywhere else except the Garden of Eden. He created that as a wasteland to play a little game on Adam and fool him into thinking Man was first and then plants. So getting back to the OP, first a wasteland, then a Garden of Eden, and then a wasteland again. I don't have a problem with that.

Magus55 · 04-16-2003, 02:24 PM

Quote:

In the SAB contradictions thread, Magus is forced either to admit a contradiction or that God created plants everywhere else except the Garden of Eden. He created that as a wasteland to play a little game on Adam and fool him into thinking Man was first and then plants. So getting back to the OP, first a wasteland, then a Garden of Eden, and then a wasteland again. I don't have a problem with that.

When did i ever say God created plants everywhere except Eden?

Its quite clear that plants were before Adam and Eve.

Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground.

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

ex-xian · 04-16-2003, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maguss55
The shape of the earth is a very poor argument, because if you
were to read the original hebrew, it would make clear sense as
to what they meant. It gets skewed in translation.

Originally posted by ex-xian
Amazing that such a tender, loving, mericful, father-god would stake humanities eternal
souls upon such an ambiguous language.

"Magus, Magus, how long must I suffer with you?" to paraphrase Jesus. You never respond to my posts. Whazzup wit dat, my man? I meant this as a serious question, am I to assume that you have no good response?

ex-xian · 04-16-2003, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55

When did i ever say God created plants everywhere except Eden? Its quite clear
that plants were before Adam and Eve.

Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the
field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and
[there was] not a man to till the ground.

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the
ground.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So, did you make a mistake when quoting genesis, or did you deliberately try to deceive?

4 These are the
generations of the heavens and the earth when
they were created. In the day that the LORD
God made the earth and the heavens, 5 when
no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no
herb of the field had yet sprung up--for the
LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the
earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6
but a mist went up from the earth and watered
the whole face of the ground-- 7 then the LORD
God formed man of dust from the ground, and
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and
man became a living being. 8 And the LORD God
planted a garden in Eden, in the east; and there
he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out
of the ground the LORD God made to grow
every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good
for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the
garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good
and evil. 10

BadBadBad · 04-16-2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
When did i ever say God created plants everywhere except Eden?

Its quite clear that plants were before Adam and Eve.

Well you never did respond to that did you. That's OK, now that you have, I'll cross post for you. Well, to go along with this, it would be nice if you could supply all that proof that you now want in this thread. How about it?

Jeremy Pallant · 04-17-2003, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
There are some good churches out there that to follow the Bible strictly, just can take some time to find them.

I'm curious, Magus. Could you provide us with the name and location of such a church, and the criteria by which you judge it?

04-14-2003, 07:14 PM	#11
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	Why would they have to be understood Different? I have visited SAB numerous time and the websites owner agenda/spin what ever you would call it to me looks like that it is supported with what he gives. Certain bible verses sound wierd and anomolies that do not make sense to my thinking and perception of today. Like the verses that insinuate that the earth is flat. We all know that it is a sphere or ball(there is a word for ball in the hebrew language,but it was not used to describe the earth in the OT) I am pretty sure that if a God did create the earth round it would have known it created it round like a sphere or ball and write the truth. It sounds to me like the question is who made who?

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04-14-2003, 07:46 PM	#12
Magus55 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 7,204	No Mark, the verse about the Earth states its circular. Could it refer to flat too in relation to the horizon? Yes, but why assume it? And in Hebrew, there is no direct word which means sphere. Yes, Duwr means ball, but it also in the same defintion means circular ( not spherical). Certain words in Hebrew, can't be used interchangeably to describe words which don't exist. Duwr in Hebrew, does not necessarily refer to a sphere, it depends on the context of it. And how do we know, that the verse explaining a circular earth didn't use Duwr in the context of it being spherical? The Bible writers knew the Earth was suspended over nothing and relational to the sun and moon. The shape of the earth is a very poor argument, because if you were to read the original hebrew, it would make clear sense as to what they meant. It gets skewed in translation.

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