Freethought & Rationalism Archive

brahma · 03-03-2002, 03:23 PM

[Well, trying to look on the good side, and not that I'm saying that killing is good, but India is ridiculously overpopulated anyway. Not that a mere few hundred lives is significant to that population.]

Oh yes, that's a mature point of view. Where do you get your ideologies, the back of cereal boxes?

The conflict in India is much more a political game than anything else. The ruling party - the BJP has close ties with the fundemental hindu organisations that incite these conflicts. Any hardline stance by the government against these groups would have a disastrous effect on their own stability. Thats why these groups have a free rein. If the government had had the balls to nip these clashes in the bud, none of this would have happened.

As a citizen of that country I can attest to the fact that the average hindu or muslim on the street are a peaceful lot. Its the age old mob mentality that causes them to behave irrationally.

03-03-2002, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by christ-on-a-stick:
[QBIs there any hope for the human race? Are we ever going to evolve?[/QB]

Evolution ended with the Reformation and we are now well into the involutionary period. Enjoy it and make the best of it.

03-03-2002, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shake:
Well, trying to look on the good side, and not that I'm saying that killing is good, but India is ridiculously overpopulated anyway. Not that a mere few hundred lives is significant to that population. <a href="http://www.zpg.org" target="_blank">Heard of these guys?</a>

I would say that America is underpopulated and there is no need to kill anyone.

brahma · 03-03-2002, 04:14 PM

[I would say that America is underpopulated and there is no need to kill anyone]

Now that you put it that way, I would have to agree... well, maybe we need to kill a few of them though just to even things out. I mean we may be savages but that doesnt mean we should not be disinterested.

copernicus · 03-03-2002, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shake:
The whole thing in India (and Israel and Ireland too, for that matter(hey, what is it with those 'I' countries?)) just shows how good we have it here in the States. Sure, there's conflict between the religions here, but nothing on that magnitude.

No, nothing of the magnitude of just a few hundred deaths in a small riot. We do things the civilized way. Half the US households own guns, and we manage to kill tens of thousands of our citizens with them every year, not to mention injuries in the hundreds of thousands. And then there are the drug overdoses. And the drunk drivers who turn automobiles into weapons. We are so much better than those overpopulated third world countries.

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: copernicus ]

brahma · 03-03-2002, 05:32 PM

Copernicus' post reminded me of a quote attributed to Mahatma Gandhi. When asked by an English reporter what he thought of western civilization he replied, "I think it would be a good idea". I guess the point he was trying to make was that we all have that little bit of a savage in us. It is just manifested differently.

copernicus · 03-03-2002, 08:38 PM

I wasn't thinking of Gandhi, brahma, but he has been one of my personal inspirations for a long time. I don't sympathize with his religious thinking, but he seems to have understood the nature of violence better than most other human beings. I can imagine how this latest incidence of violence between muslims and hindus would have caused him pain. His greatest failure was the partition of the subcontinent into India and Pakistan. And the religion-inspired hatred killed him in the end.

brahma · 03-04-2002, 01:07 PM

Yes, Gandhi's greatest mistake was probably his underestimation of the fanaticism associated with religion. To him religion was a matter of personal choice, thats probably why he never anticipated the mob frenzy and slaughter that followed India's independence. However, as you rightly point out, no one had a better idea of the nature of violence than he did having witnessed it first hand and realising its futility.

When you sit and think about his struggle it is just astonishing and beyond comprehension that a scrawny, half naked individual could drive the mighty british empire out of his homeland without use of a single bullet or a blow. Too bad indians of today's generation cant take a cue from him.

It was Einstein who remarked about Gandhi, "Generations to come will scarce believe that such a one as this walked the earth in flesh and blood."

gregw · 03-06-2002, 09:05 AM

But according to "Bible Christians" he's in hell, suffering torture for ever and ever. And people wonder why I'm not Christian! (At least not of the "fundamentalist" type.)

By my way of thinking, Christ and Gandhi were exceptional individuals, among the best of our species, and right now they are in Heaven, having a really good conversation, wondering what the hell we are all doing down here. (I'm sure Buddha and Confucious (sp?) are at that party, too.)

I'm not perfect, thus this message:

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: gregw ]

03-06-2002, 09:05 AM	#19
gregw Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Wakefield, MA., USA Posts: 32	But according to "Bible Christians" he's in hell, suffering torture for ever and ever. And people wonder why I'm not Christian! (At least not of the "fundamentalist" type.) By my way of thinking, Christ and Gandhi were exceptional individuals, among the best of our species, and right now they are in Heaven, having a really good conversation, wondering what the hell we are all doing down here. (I'm sure Buddha and Confucious (sp?) are at that party, too.) I'm not perfect, thus this message: [ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: gregw ]</p>

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03-03-2002, 03:23 PM	#11
brahma Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: India/Houston Posts: 133	[Well, trying to look on the good side, and not that I'm saying that killing is good, but India is ridiculously overpopulated anyway. Not that a mere few hundred lives is significant to that population.] Oh yes, that's a mature point of view. Where do you get your ideologies, the back of cereal boxes? The conflict in India is much more a political game than anything else. The ruling party - the BJP has close ties with the fundemental hindu organisations that incite these conflicts. Any hardline stance by the government against these groups would have a disastrous effect on their own stability. Thats why these groups have a free rein. If the government had had the balls to nip these clashes in the bud, none of this would have happened. As a citizen of that country I can attest to the fact that the average hindu or muslim on the street are a peaceful lot. Its the age old mob mentality that causes them to behave irrationally.

03-03-2002, 04:14 PM	#14
brahma Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: India/Houston Posts: 133	[I would say that America is underpopulated and there is no need to kill anyone] Now that you put it that way, I would have to agree... well, maybe we need to kill a few of them though just to even things out. I mean we may be savages but that doesnt mean we should not be disinterested.

03-03-2002, 05:32 PM	#16
brahma Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: India/Houston Posts: 133	Copernicus' post reminded me of a quote attributed to Mahatma Gandhi. When asked by an English reporter what he thought of western civilization he replied, "I think it would be a good idea". I guess the point he was trying to make was that we all have that little bit of a savage in us. It is just manifested differently.

03-03-2002, 08:38 PM	#17
copernicus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 1,531	I wasn't thinking of Gandhi, brahma, but he has been one of my personal inspirations for a long time. I don't sympathize with his religious thinking, but he seems to have understood the nature of violence better than most other human beings. I can imagine how this latest incidence of violence between muslims and hindus would have caused him pain. His greatest failure was the partition of the subcontinent into India and Pakistan. And the religion-inspired hatred killed him in the end.

03-04-2002, 01:07 PM	#18
brahma Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: India/Houston Posts: 133	Yes, Gandhi's greatest mistake was probably his underestimation of the fanaticism associated with religion. To him religion was a matter of personal choice, thats probably why he never anticipated the mob frenzy and slaughter that followed India's independence. However, as you rightly point out, no one had a better idea of the nature of violence than he did having witnessed it first hand and realising its futility. When you sit and think about his struggle it is just astonishing and beyond comprehension that a scrawny, half naked individual could drive the mighty british empire out of his homeland without use of a single bullet or a blow. Too bad indians of today's generation cant take a cue from him. It was Einstein who remarked about Gandhi, "Generations to come will scarce believe that such a one as this walked the earth in flesh and blood."

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