Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Keith · 07-20-2003, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pain Paien

"I do not believe god exists, as anyone who had read my posts would know. The reason I posted it was because YOU could not know, thus you have no basis to decry it. Under your system, if god had ordered it, it would be "moral", and you have no logical reason to believe that he did not.

Your argument seems to be based on a few faulty premises: that God could command an immoral act, and that God's moral nature is ambiguous, therefore, we can't tell what kinds of attrocities God might command.

How do you justify them?

Pain Paien · 07-20-2003, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith
Your argument seems to be based on a few faulty premises: that God could command an immoral act, and that God's moral nature is ambiguous, therefore, we can't tell what kinds of attrocities God might command.

How do you justify them?

By stating, correctly, that none of these premises are in any way faulty. All of those things are true, and each of them are if not explicitly then implicitly conceded in your very own statements.

Nowhere357 · 07-20-2003, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pain Paien
All of this, every last bit of it, has been discussed again and again since the debate began. You have failed to address it or even acknowledge it each time.

The longer a thread like this runs, the greater the possibility that a post like yours will appear. It will always be addressed to the "objective morality" advocate, and will point out their complete failure to debate logically.

I hereby dub this "Paien's Law". :notworthy

yguy · 07-20-2003, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winstonjen
Ah, but in your own beloved bible, it says to never question god.

Actually, both Abraham and Moses did just that, and were never punished for it as far as anyone knows.

Pain Paien · 07-20-2003, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nowhere357
The longer a thread like this runs, the greater the possibility that a post like yours will appear. It will always be addressed to the "objective morality" advocate, and will point out their complete failure to debate logically.

I hereby dub this "Paien's Law". :notworthy

Hooray, my ability to see the obvious will finally win me acclaim!

Pain Paien · 07-20-2003, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
Actually, both Abraham and Moses did just that, and were never punished for it as far as anyone knows.

Yeah, everything sure turned out just peachy for Moses, that's for sure...

yguy · 07-20-2003, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pain Paien
Yeah, everything sure turned out just peachy for Moses, that's for sure...

Evidently there is a hidden meaning here apprehensible only by the cognoscenti. Care to enlighten the rest of us morons?

Pain Paien · 07-20-2003, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
Evidently there is a hidden meaning here apprehensible only by the cognoscenti. Care to enlighten the rest of us morons?

It's not hidden for those who are acquainted with the bible:

Deuteronomy 32

48 On that same day the LORD told Moses, 49 "Go up into the Abarim Range to Mount Nebo in Moab, across from Jericho, and view Canaan, the land I am giving the Israelites as their own possession. 50 There on the mountain that you have climbed you will die and be gathered to your people, just as your brother Aaron died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people. 51 This is because both of you broke faith with me in the presence of the Israelites at the waters of Meribah Kadesh in the Desert of Zin and because you did not uphold my holiness among the Israelites. 52 Therefore, you will see the land only from a distance; you will not enter the land I am giving to the people of Israel."

Keep in mind, however, that I never meant to imply that those not familiar with that ridiculous book of fairy tales were morons.

yguy · 07-20-2003, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pain Paien
It's not hidden for those who are acquainted with the bible:

Deuteronomy 32

48 On that same day the LORD told Moses, 49 "Go up into the Abarim Range to Mount Nebo in Moab, across from Jericho, and view Canaan, the land I am giving the Israelites as their own possession. 50 There on the mountain that you have climbed you will die and be gathered to your people, just as your brother Aaron died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people. 51 This is because both of you broke faith with me in the presence of the Israelites at the waters of Meribah Kadesh in the Desert of Zin and because you did not uphold my holiness among the Israelites. 52 Therefore, you will see the land only from a distance; you will not enter the land I am giving to the people of Israel."

Keep in mind, however, that I never meant to imply that those not familiar with that ridiculous book of fairy tales were morons.

Evidently this is supposed to provide evidence that Moses was punished for questioning God at the point where He was about to wipe out the Israelites and make a great nation of Moses instead. As any fool can see, it does no such thing.

Nowhere357 · 07-20-2003, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
As any fool can see, it does no such thing.

Well, I don't see it, while you do. So I guess I agree with you.

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