Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ronin · 10-21-2002, 06:02 AM

From Joel aka HoosierGuy28 ~

The foundation for my belief is, of course, God and the Bible. When I read the Bible, I read it in its context and with the intention of harmonizing my life with it, rather than searching for discrepancies. The Bible was written many years ago, it was not originally written in English, and as I'm sure you know, there were many authors. This does cause some difficulties, but when I run into these, I look for the answers. So far, I can honestly say, I have not run into any difficulties in the Bible in which I have not been able to find resolve to. Sometimes it's just a matter of the choice of words which was used in place of the word(s) in the original language. Also, another key thing is realizing that the Bible wasn't originally broken up into thousands of verses within chapters and books. Sometimes stopping with just one verse and analyzing it doesn't bring clarity of all which is being said. Also, in reading the Bible, I am most definitely amazed more than I am confused.

And ~

I would say I am evaluating it's message honestly, because I am reading its intended message. Now maybe you don't see what I see when I read it, and I guess the best thing to do in this situation would be to agree to disagree. At least that would be my preferred solution.

So, given this immensely credulous attitude, the best possible course is to constantly expose the thousands of errors, absurdities, cruelties and inconsistencies ad nauseum ~ until the light finally comes on.

agapeo · 10-21-2002, 06:55 AM

Quote:

So, given this immensely credulous attitude, the best possible course is to constantly expose the thousands of errors, absurdities, cruelties and inconsistencies ad nauseum ~ until the light finally comes on.

That's an admirable mission in life. I suppose. But when will you find time to live your life according to your standards of life. That being (I assume) without the existence of God. To have no belief in god/s it seems strange to me that someone would wish to make a mission out of proving its non-existence.

Italics give a cool look to a post, don't ya think?

Ronin · 10-21-2002, 09:37 PM

That's an admirable mission in life. I suppose. But when will you find time to live your life according to your standards of life. That being (I assume) without the existence of God. To have no belief in god/s it seems strange to me that someone would wish to make a mission out of proving its non-existence.

Its non-existence is reality, so that comes naturally ~ I only seek to provide simplicity to those too lethargic to give the specifics of their comfortable lie a second thought.

No harm in negating falsehoods.

In fact, I find it invigorating.

Ronin · 10-21-2002, 09:40 PM

Italics give a cool look to a post, don't ya think?

Are you asking me?

I wouldn't know.

agapeo · 10-22-2002, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Italics give a cool look to a post, don't ya think?

Are you asking me?

I wouldn't know.

Fair enuh! So what do you think of bold then?

[ October 22, 2002: Message edited by: agapeo ]</p>

Opera Nut · 10-22-2002, 10:44 AM

Cydonia, thank you for reinforcing my prejudice that all fundamentalists are anti-intellectual, and are horrified that people like me take courses in Bible study that are philosophical and historical, and don't beat anyone over the head with a particular theology. Bet you couldn't pass that course either. And I KNOW you couldn't pass Nature and Function of Religion -- too much philosophy and thinking required. You've probably never met a real Bible scholar -- the kind that know several ancient languages, have read Thomas Aquinas in the original medieval latin, can read and analyse the non-canonical gospels, etc.

Have you ever gotten an advanced degree in anything? Have you ever busted ass reading books and thinking for YEARS to get an advanced degree? If you had, you might have some respect for scholars. As it is, you're just saying that scholarship is unimportant. Stay in your ignorance, you're happy there.

As far as "asking God to guide you", I was a Christian, read my bible, prayed, went to church and all that, and I never got the slightest indication from God or Jesus or any supernatural being that I was supposed to live my life a certain way, or do a particular thing. And don't pull the moral superiority argument on me. I've heard that: "You don't pray hard enough, blah, blah, you don't have enough faith."

BULLSHIT.

That's why I am not a Xtian anymore. I got no guidance from God, the message I got in church was "You are a worthless piece of shit because of original sin, our righteousness is as filthy rags, etc." I cried in church every time I went because of that "you will never be good enough" attitude. You think this is good for people? To be belittled, humiliated, and emotionally beaten down as a group by a preacher?

And do you know what that message did to me?
I became suicidal and tried to slash my wrists and spent two weeks in the funny farm. I was trying to get away from the pain caused by these Christians. I was traumatized terribly by these people in the name of "Christian love". Christianity is merely socially sanctioned emotional and mental abuse.

If God wanted me to believe in he/she/it, then he/she/it would let me know that he/she/it definitely exists. That has not happened. Therefore, I do not believe in God. It is that simple.

Opera Nut · 10-22-2002, 10:47 AM

"Letting the Lord guide you thru his Word" -- been there, tried to do that, failed, got the post traumatic stress syndrome, the mindfuck, and the stay in the county funny farm locked ward so I would not harm myself (no shoelaces allowed -- could be used to hang myself).

cydonia · 10-22-2002, 05:53 PM

Opera Nut,

I'm a little embarrassed. I often play devil's advocate in a sarcastic way, and this is not the first time what i thought was funny was taken seriously by someone else online, and i'm sorry if my attempt at humor offended you. I know i'm joking, but i shouldn't assume others who read a post know that as well.

I'm most definitely on your side. Many times i've been in debates with christians about innacuracies and other ridiculous things in the bible, only to get the response that "Just ask Jesus, and he'll make your questions clear" "They're not contradictions, ther complement each other" nonsense. It's pretty frustrating, because basically they are saying exactly what you said: no matter how much knowledge one aquires through dilligence and extreme effort, someone who doesn't know a third of the information can "win" the argument because god told them the special secret that makes it all make sense but can't be put into words for some reason.

Religion has clearly affected your life in a negative way, and while my experiences are less intense, it has affected mine negatively as well. It's scary to feel that after all my questioning and demanding evidence, there's still that little brain washed voice in the back of my head that says, "but just pray and it will all make sense." It's a slap across the face of anyone who takes knowledge and intellectual honesty seriously. One of the reasons i come here is to help get rid of that little voice who is too afraid of hell to doubt Jesus 100%.

It's a struggle i still go through, and i'm truly sorry that my way of coping (making smart ass remarks) was not made properly clear as being a joke.

Psycho Economist · 10-25-2002, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cydonia:
<strong>It's scary to feel that after all my questioning and demanding evidence, there's still that little brain washed voice in the back of my head that says, "but just pray and it will all make sense." It's a slap across the face of anyone who takes knowledge and intellectual honesty seriously. One of the reasons i come here is to help get rid of that little voice who is too afraid of hell to doubt Jesus 100%. </strong>

<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Just felt that needed some reitteration.

cydonia · 10-25-2002, 03:16 PM

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10-21-2002, 06:02 AM	#21
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	From Joel aka HoosierGuy28 ~ The foundation for my belief is, of course, God and the Bible. When I read the Bible, I read it in its context and with the intention of harmonizing my life with it, rather than searching for discrepancies. The Bible was written many years ago, it was not originally written in English, and as I'm sure you know, there were many authors. This does cause some difficulties, but when I run into these, I look for the answers. So far, I can honestly say, I have not run into any difficulties in the Bible in which I have not been able to find resolve to. Sometimes it's just a matter of the choice of words which was used in place of the word(s) in the original language. Also, another key thing is realizing that the Bible wasn't originally broken up into thousands of verses within chapters and books. Sometimes stopping with just one verse and analyzing it doesn't bring clarity of all which is being said. Also, in reading the Bible, I am most definitely amazed more than I am confused. And ~ I would say I am evaluating it's message honestly, because I am reading its intended message. Now maybe you don't see what I see when I read it, and I guess the best thing to do in this situation would be to agree to disagree. At least that would be my preferred solution. So, given this immensely credulous attitude, the best possible course is to constantly expose the thousands of errors, absurdities, cruelties and inconsistencies ad nauseum ~ until the light finally comes on.

10-21-2002, 09:37 PM	#23
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	That's an admirable mission in life. I suppose. But when will you find time to live your life according to your standards of life. That being (I assume) without the existence of God. To have no belief in god/s it seems strange to me that someone would wish to make a mission out of proving its non-existence. Its non-existence is reality, so that comes naturally ~ I only seek to provide simplicity to those too lethargic to give the specifics of their comfortable lie a second thought. No harm in negating falsehoods. In fact, I find it invigorating.

10-21-2002, 09:40 PM	#24
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	Italics give a cool look to a post, don't ya think? Are you asking me? I wouldn't know.

10-22-2002, 10:44 AM	#26
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	Cydonia, thank you for reinforcing my prejudice that all fundamentalists are anti-intellectual, and are horrified that people like me take courses in Bible study that are philosophical and historical, and don't beat anyone over the head with a particular theology. Bet you couldn't pass that course either. And I KNOW you couldn't pass Nature and Function of Religion -- too much philosophy and thinking required. You've probably never met a real Bible scholar -- the kind that know several ancient languages, have read Thomas Aquinas in the original medieval latin, can read and analyse the non-canonical gospels, etc. Have you ever gotten an advanced degree in anything? Have you ever busted ass reading books and thinking for YEARS to get an advanced degree? If you had, you might have some respect for scholars. As it is, you're just saying that scholarship is unimportant. Stay in your ignorance, you're happy there. As far as "asking God to guide you", I was a Christian, read my bible, prayed, went to church and all that, and I never got the slightest indication from God or Jesus or any supernatural being that I was supposed to live my life a certain way, or do a particular thing. And don't pull the moral superiority argument on me. I've heard that: "You don't pray hard enough, blah, blah, you don't have enough faith." BULLSHIT. That's why I am not a Xtian anymore. I got no guidance from God, the message I got in church was "You are a worthless piece of shit because of original sin, our righteousness is as filthy rags, etc." I cried in church every time I went because of that "you will never be good enough" attitude. You think this is good for people? To be belittled, humiliated, and emotionally beaten down as a group by a preacher? And do you know what that message did to me? I became suicidal and tried to slash my wrists and spent two weeks in the funny farm. I was trying to get away from the pain caused by these Christians. I was traumatized terribly by these people in the name of "Christian love". Christianity is merely socially sanctioned emotional and mental abuse. If God wanted me to believe in he/she/it, then he/she/it would let me know that he/she/it definitely exists. That has not happened. Therefore, I do not believe in God. It is that simple.

10-22-2002, 10:47 AM	#27
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	"Letting the Lord guide you thru his Word" -- been there, tried to do that, failed, got the post traumatic stress syndrome, the mindfuck, and the stay in the county funny farm locked ward so I would not harm myself (no shoelaces allowed -- could be used to hang myself).

10-22-2002, 05:53 PM	#28
cydonia Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: southern california Posts: 1,002	Opera Nut, I'm a little embarrassed. I often play devil's advocate in a sarcastic way, and this is not the first time what i thought was funny was taken seriously by someone else online, and i'm sorry if my attempt at humor offended you. I know i'm joking, but i shouldn't assume others who read a post know that as well. I'm most definitely on your side. Many times i've been in debates with christians about innacuracies and other ridiculous things in the bible, only to get the response that "Just ask Jesus, and he'll make your questions clear" "They're not contradictions, ther complement each other" nonsense. It's pretty frustrating, because basically they are saying exactly what you said: no matter how much knowledge one aquires through dilligence and extreme effort, someone who doesn't know a third of the information can "win" the argument because god told them the special secret that makes it all make sense but can't be put into words for some reason. Religion has clearly affected your life in a negative way, and while my experiences are less intense, it has affected mine negatively as well. It's scary to feel that after all my questioning and demanding evidence, there's still that little brain washed voice in the back of my head that says, "but just pray and it will all make sense." It's a slap across the face of anyone who takes knowledge and intellectual honesty seriously. One of the reasons i come here is to help get rid of that little voice who is too afraid of hell to doubt Jesus 100%. It's a struggle i still go through, and i'm truly sorry that my way of coping (making smart ass remarks) was not made properly clear as being a joke.

10-25-2002, 03:16 PM	#30
cydonia Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: southern california Posts: 1,002

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