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07-16-2003, 07:04 AM | #31 | |
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07-16-2003, 07:10 AM | #32 | |
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07-16-2003, 07:35 AM | #33 | ||||||
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I'm sure that if you had accepted Allah as Saviour (and yes, contrary to what Magus says, Allah does describe Himself as Saviour!), you would read the Qur'an with a "change of mind", just like River does. Quote:
I wouldn't say you are brainwashed or deluded. I'd just say you haven't done enough examining. Quote:
The Bible says it's the Word of God, and the Qur'an says it's the Word of God. Both cannot be right. But you ought to examine them impartially, for both Christianity and Islam posit an eternal hell for unbelievers. I for my part disbelieve them both. Quote:
Actually the Qur'an is believed to be the work of multiple hands. Researchers have a great dispute about who Muhammad was, and the traditional view that Muhammad wrote the Qur'an is widely disregarded in modern critical research. Just as the Bible is the work of multiple hands, and not of Moses alone. Quote:
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07-16-2003, 10:36 AM | #34 | |
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(At the risk of piling on) how are you able to distinguish this feeling of yours that the Holy Spirit is in you, helping you read the bibile, from self-delusion? How do you know that it is not just all in your head? What if it were just all in your head? How could you know that? If you were wrong about your faith, would you want to know it? If so, what experiments could you perform that would enable you to tell if the faith was "real", or just "all in your head?" (I'm just trying to understand how faith works, or rather, how people can allow themselves to have faith. I think I've about come to the conclusion that generally, the brains of humans (and I don't exclude my own brain, though I think it works better than average) are just really no damn good, for the most part. Very very unreliable.) |
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07-16-2003, 10:58 AM | #35 | |
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07-16-2003, 12:49 PM | #36 | |||||
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It is hard to explain, but there is a significant difference. It was literally like blinders had come off. Quote:
It is difficult to explain the Holy Spirit. He is something I had difficulty understanding for many years, even though I experience Him every day. He lives in us, as promised by Jesus, and connects us to God. He tells us how to live, if we listen. Many people tune Him out. For the person who made the statement about the koran and the Holy Spirit, the koran denies such a being, so no I would never read the koran with the Holy Spirit if I were islamic. As a Christian, I can read the koran with the Holy Spirit and He points out crucial problems in it. Quote:
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Perhaps this will help you to understand what the Holy Spirit is to Christians. Matthew 10 19But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. John 3 5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." John 14 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 16 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. Acts 2 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. Before anyone says anything, the Spirit gives us gifts as we need them. We do not necessarily receive every gift, only when He sees the need for them. I have not spoken in tongues, nor do I expect to do so. A great description of the Holy Spirit and what He does can be found in Romans 8 which I have not pasted because of its length. 1 Corinthians 2 12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. Galatians 5 16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. Hebrews 2:4 4God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will. 1 John 3 24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. 1 John 4 13We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. |
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07-16-2003, 01:18 PM | #37 | |
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1) This addresses your silly claim about the Islamic understanding of Trinity. http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur.../marytrin.html 2) I have already addressed you before on the topic of variants of Qur'an. Do you want me to embarrass you once again? 3)If I were your muslim friend, I would be rather suspicious of having a friend who so aggressively detests my belief system and everything I stand for. -River |
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07-16-2003, 02:20 PM | #38 | |
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07-16-2003, 02:30 PM | #39 | ||
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Do you have anything to say that we haven't heard before? |
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07-16-2003, 02:59 PM | #40 | |
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Once again, conveniently ignored:
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--J.D. |
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