cricket

Sentinel,

Where I'm from they are called chiroquacktors.

Ms. Siv

Good one, that

- Sivakami.

pulpyboy

I must admit that I am amazed at how this thread has become an attack on chiropractic. It appears that by the tone of the put downs, the previous posters worship at the church of Modern Medicine.

"Modern Medicine is neither an art nor a science. It is a religion."
Robert S Mendelsohn, M.D. Confessions of a Medical Heretic

"Would people allow themselves to be artificially put to sleep and then cut to pieces in a process they couldn't have the slightest notion about-- if they didn't have faith? Would people swallow the thousands of tons of pills every year-- again without the slightest knowledge of what those chemicals are going to do--if they didn't have faith?"

Prescription of psychotropic drugs for 2-4 year olds has increased 140% from 1991 to 1995. (from the journal of the American Medical Association JAMA 2000;283:1025-1030

An average of 106,000 hospitalized patients died and 2,216,000 had a serious reaction to the right drug being given for the correct diagnosis and in the correct dose in a single year. JAMA 4-15-98

The drug industry's consumer ad spending rose 39% from 1995-1997 to $3.2 billion. USA Today 7-20-98
$3.2 billion in advertising is approximately the same income as all practicing chiropractors combined per year in the USA.

Dr. David Lawrence, chief executive of Kaiser Permanente "Medical accidents and mistakes kill 400,000 people a year, ranking behind only heart disease and cancer as the leading cause of death. Mistakes alone kill more people each year than tobacco, alcohol, firearms, or automobiles."

And chiropractors are the dangerous quacks?

I have been a chiropractor for 16 years. Are there quacks within my profession? Of course. Are all chiropractors unscientific quacks? No!
I don't know of any profession that has the monopoly on all the good or all the bad people.
There is a plethora of research articles published in peer reviewed medical journals that support what we do.

In 1994, the Agency for Health Care Policy and Research published a book "Acute Low Back Problems in Adults." In their conclusion the authors stated that there are only 2 treatments for acute low back pain that have been scientifically proven, NSAIDS and spinal manipulation.
The AMA recently published a booklet for their members addressing acute low back pain. There was no mention of spinal manipulation.

Health care is tremendouly political and strongly influenced by economics of all involved. To believe otherwise is extremely naive.

I would like to think that a board such as this that looks upon the authority of the church with skepticism would surely also look at the authority of organized medicine with the same zeal of skepticism.

If there are any additional misconceptions about chiropractic that I can clear up, I would be happy to answer additional questions.

"Lies go halfway around the world before truth puts on its boots." Mark Twain

Michael an atheist chiropractor

TacticalLoco

Great post pulpyboy!
Though I'm not sure 2 comments constitute an attack. Still I agree with much of what you said.
And my brother is a DC.

pulpyboy

I guess I am just sensitive to people making uninformed comments. Also, I had recently read a thread by Thomas McPhee denigrating alternative health care with a post by Mad Kally recommending quackwatch.com. Quackwatch is run by Stephen Barrett a retired psychiatrist with an axe to grind against chiropractic. I have tremendous respect for both Thomas McPhee and Mad Kally but recommending that site to someone open-minded about healthcare is analogous to being an evolutionist and being referred to Kent Hovind's site.

I am married to a R.N.,B.S.N,P.H.N.. I have several friends that are in the medical community. I believe that they try their best in dealing with their patients just as I do with mine. I haven't come across anyone in healthcare that has all the answers. I have often joked with my M.D. friends that they could eliminate all of the chiropractic profession by doing just one thing....healing all their patients completely.

Michael

echidna

Look, over there, you see that pile of babies ? That's where we tip out our bathwater.

Secular Pinoy

Tell me, how does chiropractic work? What are their theories and methodologies? Is chiropractic just for lower back pains, or do they really cure a whole range of diseases and maladies?

pulpyboy

secularpinoy,

Chiropractic theory is that abnormal posture or alignment causes abnormal function. Abnormal function gets expressed as pain or some other dysfunction. The brain communicates with the rest of the body primarily through the spinal cord housed in the vertebral column. Correcting the posture or misalignment by manipulating the vertebral segments allows the body to function at a higher degree of health.

There is lots of research that supports chiropractic care for neck pain, headaches,and low back pain. There is also some research that suggests that chiropractic is beneficial with some other conditions such as childhood asthma, infantile colic, and respiratory function.

Some chiropractors believe that they can treat everything. I do not share this view nor do most of the chiropractors that I know.

I hope this answers some of your questions. If you need more detailed or in depth responses, let me know.

Michael

Viti

Well, when I bent myself in half BACKWARDS on a trampoline when I was 12(literally, my feet and face hit at the same time, only my legs were over my head from behind), chiropractic saved me from surgery and unnecessary drugs (and still keeps me off the table), and saved me from surgery yet again when I developed TMJ after my wisdom teeth were pulled at 16 (keeps the most painful symptoms, unbearable headaches and neck pain under control). The supposed 'real" docs wanted to break my jaw and put a rod in my spine. For some reason, I tend to twist my ribs, again chiropractic fixes this in minutes, rather than prescribing me pain killers like Lortab which cause me nightmares and projectile vomiting.

Chiropractic also helped my Dad when he threw a disk and healed my close friend of migraines.

I don't know much about doctorin' but I know what works

Vorkosigan

Pulpyboy's post paraphrased this in part:
<a href="http://www.idealspine.com/Medical%20Madness.htm" target="_blank">http://www.idealspine.com/Medical%20Madness.htm</a>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pulpyboy:
"Would people allow themselves to be artificially put to sleep and then cut to pieces in a process they couldn't have the slightest notion about-- if they didn't have faith?

Talk about confusing the various meanings of "faith!" I guess when I call my wife to pick me up from work, she must be the center of my religion, since i have "faith" she'll come get me. Didn't anyone ever teach the fellow you quote the difference between religious faith and the other kind?

Prescription of psychotropic drugs for 2-4 year olds has increased 140% from 1991 to 1995. (from the journal of the American Medical Association JAMA 2000;283:1025-1030

Yes, the study said that between 1 to 1.5% of young children in the 2- to 4-year-old age group are being treated with stimulants, antidepressants, or antipsychotic medications, according to data analysis of Medicaid programs in the Midwest and Atlantic states, and a managed care organization in the northwest. This is a serious issue -- but guess what! It has nothing to do with chiropractic, which remains fraudulent whether or not modern medical science is bogus.

See, the basic dichotomy you've set up here is the same one creationists use: why, if modern medicine is wrong, chiropractic must be right! But unfortunately, it is not that simple. Each form of therapy must stand on its own. I quite agree that drugs are overprescribed, but that doesn't make chiropractic correct. There's no logical link to your argument, just the false dichotomy you've erected.

An average of 106,000 hospitalized patients died and 2,216,000 had a serious reaction to the right drug being given for the correct diagnosis and in the correct dose in a single year. JAMA 4-15-98

The site you stole this from forgot to inform you that this is a bullshit meta-analysis of studies done over many years. Quite a large number of researchers consider meta-analysis to be nonsense. The figures are actually the middle of a range of 1.7 to 2.7 million. In other words, these figures are &lt;cough, cough&gt; suspect.

The drug industry's consumer ad spending rose 39% from 1995-1997 to $3.2 billion. USA Today 7-20-98 $3.2 billion in advertising is approximately the same income as all practicing chiropractors combined per year in the USA.

&lt;yawn&gt; Great. It's probably also equal to the combined income of phone psychics too.

Dr. David Lawrence, chief executive of Kaiser Permanente "Medical accidents and mistakes kill 400,000 people a year, ranking behind only heart disease and cancer as the leading cause of death. Mistakes alone kill more people each year than tobacco, alcohol, firearms, or automobiles."

Just for the record, there were ~2.4 million deaths in 1999. Apparently the <a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm" target="_blank">National Center for Health Statistics</a> just missed the cause of 1/6 of all the deaths in the US that year, the third leading cause, because it ain't listed.

And chiropractors are the dangerous quacks?

It's dangerous to ask rhetorical questions. You might get a serious answer.

There is a plethora of research articles published in peer reviewed medical journals that support what we do.

No doubt the chiropractic journals are full of it.

[b]In 1994, the Agency for Health Care Policy and Research published a book "Acute Low Back Problems in Adults." In their conclusion the authors stated that there are only 2 treatments for acute low back pain that have been scientifically proven, NSAIDS and spinal manipulation.

That Agency now operates under a new name.
<a href="http://www.ahcpr.gov/news/pubsix.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ahcpr.gov/news/pubsix.htm</a>

The AMA recently published a booklet for their members addressing acute low back pain. There was no mention of spinal manipulation.

Probably because it doesn't work.

The fact is that you may be honest, but as <a href="http://www.canoe.ca/PedChiro/home.html" target="_blank"> this article shows</a>, chiropractors as a group are even bigger sleazes than the drug companies. Check out the healthy eleven year old girl who was nevertheless recommended for treatment by four out of five chiros, to the tune of $5K!

<a href="http://stroke.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/32/5/1054" target="_blank">Here's a possible link between chiro and stroke</a>

Oh, and <a href="http://www.canoe.ca/PedChiro/subluxations.html" target="_blank">chiropractors can't even prove subluxations
exist!</a>. And yet the whole profession is based on that.

I would like to think that a board such as this that looks upon the authority of the church with skepticism would surely also look at the authority of organized medicine with the same zeal of skepticism.

The Churches are not supported by 500 years of western scientific research. Organized medicine is.

Further, we do not look with skepticism upon authority. We look with skepticism on claims about the nature of reality, whether made by authority ex cathedra or by cranks masquerading as doctors.

And like I said, you have a false dichotomy here. Even if you destroyed organized medicine, it would not mean a damn thing for chiropractic. It would still have to pass scientific muster on its own.

Those of you interested in the utter lack of science behind chiropractic might like to pay a visit to <a href="http://www.chirobase.org," target="_blank">www.chirobase.org,</a> a huge site with many articles on the failure of chiropractic to substantiate any of its claims.

Michael an atheist chiropractor

Michael an atheist and skeptic, but not a chiropractor.

[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: turtonm ]</p>