sighhswolf

"Are their any atheists here that think Christianity can be a positive force in individual peoples lives and in society?"

If the practice of christianity were based entirely on the supposed teachings of the NT character of Jesus, then it may be possible for christianity to be a positive influence in our culture.
Unfortunately, the institution of christianity is
somewhat removed from those teachings.
When Jesus is asked what a person must do to live the life worthy of the rewards of heaven in the afterlife he said, "Act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your god."
If in fact the body of christianity were to drop doctrine/dogma and adhere to the above admonition
in it's simplest form it would be highly likely to
result in a positive influence on todays society
collectively.
But since the church/institution decided to complicate, subvert, bastardize, and editorialize
these simple teachings and concepts into an incomprehensive mess and dump tons of guilt, elitism, and just plain nutty doctrines on the populace, I personally do not see a positive side to christianity.

If a person decides that the life they are leading is detrimental to those around them, friends and family, and resolves to change those behaviors that have resulted in their alienation from those that care based solely on a recognition of their problems that decision is made from within.
No amount of outside influence will provide a lasting change in lifestyle and relationships.
If the person has not realized that those changes
must be attempted for the sake of keeping those whom they care about close and supportive it will fail miserably.
Religious epiphanies leading to changes in lifestyles (at least in my personal experience)
do not result in long term changes and for the most part results in backsliding, the very moment that crutch is kicked out from under them.

The conviction to take another path has to come from the person........ deep inside.... and must be accomplished for the sake of love and caring, not because someone tells them god wants it this way, or out of fear of retribution.

I have said enough.
Wolf

babelfish

Sighhswolf said:

This has been my experience too. Of course, Christians gloss over this problem of backsliding by pointing out that humans have a sinful nature, and that born-again people aren't perfect, just forgiven. Very convenient.



[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: babelfish ]</p>

worldling

Geo Theo makes an interesting point. Christianity can sometimes be useful for tricking criminals into behaving themselves.

[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: worldling ]</p>

Terracotta

Sighhswolf, I agree wholeheartedly with your post, but I have to nitpick.

Actually, Jesus is never recorded saying those words. That comes from Micah 6:8 - "He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God."

That comes from 12 years of fundy Xian school and college.

Daemon:

THANK you! It truly is frightening that some people seem to need an imaginary sky-daddy with a whip to act like decent human beings. It says volumes about their true character, no?

sighhswolf

Yea, guess I need to brush up some on the quotes huh?
At least you understood my point , changes in a persons mental and physical state and their social relationships must come from inside the person because they want and see the need for those changes.
And as someone else has made mention of, I speak from personal experience also.
No god, no jesus, no salvation army, no organization can instill the willingness to correct behavior problems where there is none.
All those agencies can do is monitor the persons behavior, which can be faked without much trouble.
Religion is a crutch used to replace a crutch.
Religion is much the same as the methadone treatment for the addiction of heroin.
Wolf

Albion

Well, I know it isn't necessary to be a drinking, drug-taking monster before one can become a Christian, but so many of the Fundamentalist descriptions I've heard have tened to stress the terrible lives they lived, and drinking, drug-taking, and gambling always seemed to figure in there somehow. And then they gave their lives to God and now Jesus is all they ever need and they want to praise and worship Jesus the whole time and Jesus fills their whole lives, and now they're a completely different person...

And I can't help thinking, "no you aren't, you're the same addictive personality you always were, you just have a different, less physically damaging, object for your addiction."

So I suppose that being addicted to Jesus is something of an advantage over being addicted to tobacco or alcohol (fewer carcinogens for one thing), but in a lot of cases I don't think it's anything much more than that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is always what happens by any means. I've just heard so many cases that sound like this, though.

The Other Michael

Hi Albion,

It sounds like Christianity can be just as financially draining as crack in some churches.

At least they'll often only try to steal your non-existent soul instead of your car stereo.

cheers,
Michael

Shake

<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> Bravo! Well said!

By the way, I've been 'drinking and carousing' with Xians before, and frankly, I'm usually the more conservative one. Xians have NO monopoly on being good, moral people! Now I remember a time at a strip club and noticing that one of the girls was wearing a cross around her neck (and that was just about all she was wearing )! Oh, the irony of it all!

Edited to add: this <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=001245" target="_blank">shameless plug for a related thread I started!</a>

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: Shake ]</p>

The Other Michael

Hi Shake,

I've noticed any number of women in rather salacious photographs wearing their crosses and have always found the cognitive dissonance it would seem to represent rather puzzling.

But hey, if saved once is saved always, I guess they may as well get all the mileage they can squeeze from their sins.

cheers,
Michael