Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Keenanvin · 03-04-2002, 06:51 PM

Interesting this point should be brought up..
I Recently Purchased a wodnerful book from amazon.com... "The Hiology Of Belief" by Joseph Giovannoli. In it he talks about how people have biological biases towards beleiving things. It's quite good, in fact im going to give up on this post and go back to reading it... all atheists out there.. it's a wonderful tool for theese types of arguments, sorry I didnt actually argue a point here though

-Kv

ju'iblex · 03-05-2002, 01:26 AM

Quote:

So, what you want? I have told you what I heard and saw but you enjoy carrying on being skeptic.

Websites are the obvious choice here, i would be content with a couple of vaguely reliable ones. And of course im going to be skeptical, never believe anything you read and half of what you hear. I apologise, but thats how i was brought up.

Answerer · 03-05-2002, 05:34 AM

Well juilbex, I too was quite a skeptic and I find a website which I could remember so far, I will try to see for better one.

<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter16.htm" target="_blank">http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter16.htm</a>

Blu · 03-05-2002, 11:55 AM

I am studying right now so do not have a lot of time to write a response but will do so later today or tomorrow.

I watch the news often about the "so-called" religious wars going on in the world. If religion was the only factor in why these wars begin, then why isn't America as chaotic as those Middle Eastern countries? There is religion in America right?

I say people mix politics up with religion. If religion was the cause then we would see it repeated in every culture and every country today including our democratic culture. I see it mainly in places that basically have never known peace and in Middle Eastern countries, with militia or dictators being the sole "leaders."

Please think about this a little and respond.

Ierrellus · 03-05-2002, 12:11 PM

Dear Keenanvin,

I was happy to find your posts on this thread. In the late 1980s I wrote to Carl Pribram, sending him some of my ideas on correspondences between certain beliefs and physical attributes of DNA in its construction of organ, organism, species. To my surprise, Dr. Pribram wrote back that my ideas were interesting and fun. That is a letter I will keep forever.

The "Mind Wars" over thoughts expressed in the past or present must have reference to how and why one thinks or believes as he or she does. I believe those questions are answered by physics and biology.

The current thread is about God being created by human need. The biological indications of this issue are many. Dr Pribram referred me to a person who has explored mathematical underpinnings of the Greek pantheon of mythology. I have found the elements of physics and metaphysics in the geometry of genetic activity.

Please contact me in this forum or at my given E-mail address. Thanks,
Sincerely,
Ierrellus

DarkBronzePlant · 03-05-2002, 01:49 PM

Quote:

...
I watch the news often about the "so-called" religious wars going on in the world. If religion was the only factor in why these wars begin, then why isn't America as chaotic as those Middle Eastern countries? There is religion in America right?

Religion's not the only factor, of course. I firmly subscribe to "multiple-causation."

Still, I'd say the U.S. was pretty darned chaotic on Sept 11, wouldn't you?

Quote:

I say people mix politics up with religion. If religion was the cause then we would see it repeated in every culture and every country today including our democratic culture. I see it mainly in places that basically have never known peace and in Middle Eastern countries, with militia or dictators being the sole "leaders."

The Middle East is as volatile as it is because of the existance of a few prominant religions. Muslims, Hindus, and Christians/Jews crammed together in one relatively small region do not make for fun, friendly times. In comparison, North America has one predominant religion. And the continent is separated by large oceans from the regions in which other religions are prominant.

Anyhow, I wouldn't say that the appearance of religion in and of itself causes chaos. And I would disagree with anyone who stated that it did. If everyone subscribed to the same ideas and dogmas, there would probably be a lot more getting along in the world. A major problem occurs, IMHO, when religion outlines a rigid dogma that its followers must follow, and that dogma then conflicts either with another religious dogma or with the actions/beliefs of those who simply do not subscribe.

Mageth · 03-05-2002, 02:02 PM

I watch the news often about the "so-called" religious wars going on in the world. If religion was the only factor in why these wars begin, then why isn't America as chaotic as those Middle Eastern countries? There is religion in America right?

Of course religion isn't the only factor, but it's often used as justification for other motives. Ever heard of Manifest Destiny? Defense of slavery as biblical? (it took a couple of decades of chaos to overcome this).

Ever seen videos of some of the pro-life rallies outside abortion clinics? Ever heard of Drs and nurses being threatened or killed by anti-choice zealots for religious reasons?

Ever read about those Southern Baptist conventions with their battling conservatives and liberals?

I say people mix politics up with religion.

The Bush admin is a prime example.

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

ju'iblex · 03-05-2002, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Next, you talk about Muslims as thought their religion are so pure and kind-hearted one. Please if you actually look carefully into the Koran you will find out that it was actually condemning christians and Jews and infidel to the eternal horrors of Hell. So where in the world, did they show respect for other religions, if you insist that they do , you must show me otherwise with facts. Anyway, how do you know that the muslims aren't pretending, some of they may look friendly on the surface but deep down inside, they are actually condemning other non-muslims to hell after they died. Frankly speaking, I have seen such people before, they are quite of a hyprocite if you come to think of it.

I still dont see how that backs up this statement

Not Prince Hamlet · 03-05-2002, 05:33 PM

More to the point, in the United States, there are very few places that are considered "holy lands" to worshippers. In the Middle East, there are a number of such places and (here's the rub) they're often in the same place.

This is why Israel is such a hot spot. It's a holy land for a number of different religions, each of whom want to claim it. Add to that that Israel is beachfront property in an area dominated by desert, and you can see why it's such a contested area.

Jeff

P.S. This is my first post here, so if it stinks blame the member who kept begging me to join!

Answerer · 03-06-2002, 03:30 AM

Hi jublex, are you purposely making life difficult for me, I was trying to show you one thing at a time. Now is one of my other websites

<a href="http://www.golshan.com/rationalthinking/index.htm" target="_blank">http://www.golshan.com/rationalthinking/index.htm</a>

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03-04-2002, 06:51 PM	#31
Keenanvin Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Ohio Posts: 19	Interesting this point should be brought up.. I Recently Purchased a wodnerful book from amazon.com... "The Hiology Of Belief" by Joseph Giovannoli. In it he talks about how people have biological biases towards beleiving things. It's quite good, in fact im going to give up on this post and go back to reading it... all atheists out there.. it's a wonderful tool for theese types of arguments, sorry I didnt actually argue a point here though -Kv

03-05-2002, 05:34 AM	#33
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	Well juilbex, I too was quite a skeptic and I find a website which I could remember so far, I will try to see for better one. <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter16.htm" target="_blank">http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter16.htm</a>

03-05-2002, 11:55 AM	#34
Blu Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: In this Universe Posts: 199	I am studying right now so do not have a lot of time to write a response but will do so later today or tomorrow. I watch the news often about the "so-called" religious wars going on in the world. If religion was the only factor in why these wars begin, then why isn't America as chaotic as those Middle Eastern countries? There is religion in America right? I say people mix politics up with religion. If religion was the cause then we would see it repeated in every culture and every country today including our democratic culture. I see it mainly in places that basically have never known peace and in Middle Eastern countries, with militia or dictators being the sole "leaders." Please think about this a little and respond.

03-05-2002, 12:11 PM	#35
Ierrellus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,082	Dear Keenanvin, I was happy to find your posts on this thread. In the late 1980s I wrote to Carl Pribram, sending him some of my ideas on correspondences between certain beliefs and physical attributes of DNA in its construction of organ, organism, species. To my surprise, Dr. Pribram wrote back that my ideas were interesting and fun. That is a letter I will keep forever. The "Mind Wars" over thoughts expressed in the past or present must have reference to how and why one thinks or believes as he or she does. I believe those questions are answered by physics and biology. The current thread is about God being created by human need. The biological indications of this issue are many. Dr Pribram referred me to a person who has explored mathematical underpinnings of the Greek pantheon of mythology. I have found the elements of physics and metaphysics in the geometry of genetic activity. Please contact me in this forum or at my given E-mail address. Thanks, Sincerely, Ierrellus

03-05-2002, 02:02 PM	#37
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I watch the news often about the "so-called" religious wars going on in the world. If religion was the only factor in why these wars begin, then why isn't America as chaotic as those Middle Eastern countries? There is religion in America right? Of course religion isn't the only factor, but it's often used as justification for other motives. Ever heard of Manifest Destiny? Defense of slavery as biblical? (it took a couple of decades of chaos to overcome this). Ever seen videos of some of the pro-life rallies outside abortion clinics? Ever heard of Drs and nurses being threatened or killed by anti-choice zealots for religious reasons? Ever read about those Southern Baptist conventions with their battling conservatives and liberals? I say people mix politics up with religion. The Bush admin is a prime example. [ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

03-05-2002, 05:33 PM	#39
Not Prince Hamlet Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 1,309	More to the point, in the United States, there are very few places that are considered "holy lands" to worshippers. In the Middle East, there are a number of such places and (here's the rub) they're often in the same place. This is why Israel is such a hot spot. It's a holy land for a number of different religions, each of whom want to claim it. Add to that that Israel is beachfront property in an area dominated by desert, and you can see why it's such a contested area. Jeff P.S. This is my first post here, so if it stinks blame the member who kept begging me to join!

03-06-2002, 03:30 AM	#40
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	Hi jublex, are you purposely making life difficult for me, I was trying to show you one thing at a time. Now is one of my other websites <a href="http://www.golshan.com/rationalthinking/index.htm" target="_blank">http://www.golshan.com/rationalthinking/index.htm</a>

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