PaladInChrist

Well, being a Catholic, I got a chuckle out of this comment, but what exactly do you mean?

Amos

Yes, Kally's got it right. Santa Claus, rather, the feast of St. Nicolas, forshadows the second coming of Christ to individual Catholics. Protestants have perverted the feast of santa claus and so the Christ-mass cannot really do its thing these days. Of course it is not quite that simple but an argument can be made to show how the second coming of Christ is forshadowed by the feast of St. Nicholas. In fact it is probably more true that the perversion of santa claus prevents the second coming of Christ and that is why the second coming of Christ will always be "near" (ask Bush & co) but is never "today."

Amos

It means that heaven is for Catholics only which does not mean that all Catholics go to heaven. In Rev. we find the distinction between hot, cold and lukewarm with both hot and cold being OK while lukewarm is the wrong thing to be.

The above is still official Catholic theology which of course can't change if it once was true. Please understand that "heaven is for Chatholics only" does not mean that "only Catholics go to heaven" because in reality only and all Christians are in heaven. This now means that only Catholics can become Christians and so once they are Christian they are no longer Catholic. This would be in the same way as Jesus was a Jew and became Christian after which time he was no longer a Jew. In the end this means that heaven is for Catholics and Jews but for them as 'as Jew' or 'as Catholic.' It makes religion a means to the end.

enrious

I believe he was referring to the Kris Kringle heresy.

PaladInChrist

Amos-

Ok, your making my head hurt.

Catholic teaching says that the plan of salvation is extended to include those that are not Catholic, and that only God can judge people. We get yelled at for suggesting that Muslims could be saved.

Gurdur

So just join the club.

Amos

The Catholic church does not deny salvation outside the Church but holds that the fulness of salvation is available to Catholics and Jews only. The point here is that salvation is just the beginning of a relationship with Christ and therefore the end of religion. After this we enter the purgation period and from there we ascend to heaven. Protestants will not recognize this and insist that they must die with the unresolved paradox "sinfull yet saved." Accordingly they will spend their eternity like children of God (indeed) and die nonetheless because they failed to mature in Christ. Notice that "eternity" is not a measure of time but a state of mind wherein time-as-such is not known.

Infidelettante

PaladInChrist
As a former Fundamentalist and a present Pagan Pantheist I don’t think you can understand yourself until you understand your culture. And you can't understand your culture until you understand it’s dominant religion. In the West that is Christianity.

I have always had a strong desire to understand myself and that understanding (for me) comes by way of religion. I now define myself, to some degree, by my theological relation to Christianity. I call myself a Pagan for many reasons and one is that Christians would think of me that way because I worship a female deity.

If you think of it Atheists do the same thing. Atheists are defined by their opposition to Theism and that means, for the most part, the God of the Christians. I also count myself among the Atheists so I get to come at it from two directions. Or maybe three.

This all leads up to the difficulties Christianity presents to those who are outside the accepted religious boundaries our culture sets. While it is so that most Christians are so detached from their own religion that they are no threat to non-believers, here in the US there is a vast number of Christians who would, had they the power, deny the rights of all others to freely worship or not.

As a former Right Wing Fundamentalist Christian I assure you that they are only separated from Fascism by the power they don’t have. Those who raise their voices against them argue for the rights of all people to approach religion as individuals. Those voices include many Christians. You only need to look at the present administration to realize how close they are to the power they crave.

This forum offers non-believers and believers the opportunity to give voice to their concerns in a peaceful and controlled setting, mostly. I have found it to be enlightening and informative. There are theists here who are thoughtful and knowledgeable and there are non-theists who are irrational and unreasonable, like me.

As long as the Theists offer claims for their religion that can be refuted there will be Atheists to refute them. As long as Atheists claim there is no God there will be Theists who say there is. As long as we all keep talking we will all keep learning. As long as we all keep learning we will be doing our part to resist those who would stop everyone from learning.

JT

Radorth

Muslims can be saved, yes.

Criminy, even Amos could be saved, if he ever stops condemning Protestants like that.

You said it man. Only God can judge. I don't know why "Christians" who claim to know the Bible can't get that. Their condemnation of non-Christians is apparently based on a single interpolated verse in Mark.

Rad

lpetrich

So there was something erroneous inserted into the alleged "Word of God"?


Edited for derailment