FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB Philosophical Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 05:55 AM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-28-2003, 10:16 PM   #11
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: France
Posts: 169
Default hum

Jesus Ben Pandira. A ask-workman during the reign of Alexandre Jannaeus (106-79 B.C.), one of most pitiless of kings de Maccabean. With imprudence, this Jesus launched in a career end-times predict and agitation which disturbs the king. He met his own premature end-time while being hung on a tree - and the one Passover day before. The disciples speculé this Jesus founded the section of Essene.
chimaira is offline  
Old 05-28-2003, 11:39 PM   #12
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: earth
Posts: 150
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by SLD


2. Do we have a grave for Jesus? Yes, in fact we have three ossuaries that were found in a family plot (not sure exactly where in Israel), and they contain the bones of a Joseph, Mary and their son Jesus. IIRC, the ossuaries are dated for around the first half of the first century. Of course, we cannot conclude that this ossuary contains the bones of the Jesus, because we can't even conclude that the Jesus as portrayed in the Gospels is an historical figure or an amalgam of many figures of that time period or is a complete fabrication. But don't tell me we don't have a dead body for Jesus - we do!!!

SLD
Do you have a link for this? It sounds really interesting.

EggplantTrent
EggplantTrent is offline  
Old 05-28-2003, 11:45 PM   #13
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by EggplantTrent
Do you have a link for this? It sounds really interesting.

EggplantTrent
Some old news stories are copied here.
Toto is offline  
Old 05-29-2003, 12:04 AM   #14
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Singapore
Posts: 3,956
Default Re: The historical jesus and his crucifixion

Quote:
Originally posted by EggplantTrent
Is it an established fact that the historical Jesus was crucified? And if so, what happened to his body. Someone is telling me that the fact that no one has found the historical Jesus' body is highly indicative that Jesus was ressurected.

Hahaha, the body, if existed, probably had been rotten drastically or taken out and burned or feed to the animals. Or Jesus might not be dead in that tomb after all( he may die somewhere else). It amazes me that some people just can't use their common sense to think.
Answerer is offline  
Old 05-30-2003, 01:57 PM   #15
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: the dark side of Mars
Posts: 1,309
Default

The ossuary mentioned is disputed as to its genuineness.
Radcliffe Emerson is offline  
Old 06-01-2003, 03:23 PM   #16
SLD
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 4,109
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Radcliffe Emerson
The ossuary mentioned is disputed as to its genuineness.
Interesting Radcliffe. I had heard that there still was a dispute about James the Brother of Jesus Ossuary, but not about these others. Do you have a link or article on it.

TIA

SLD
SLD is offline  
Old 06-01-2003, 06:39 PM   #17
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: the dark side of Mars
Posts: 1,309
Default

Actually, I was thinking of the James ossuary, sorry.
However, I've done searches for this other ossuary and have found absolutely NO information on any such ossuary even existing.

In fact, this link:

http://www.graal.co.uk/ossuary.html

states the disputed James ossuary is the earliest reference to a Jesus found.
So I don't find any evidence anywhere supporting the Joseph and Mary ossuary.
I looked for just "Joseph and Mary" in connection with ossuary also, and found nothing.
Radcliffe Emerson is offline  
Old 06-01-2003, 07:12 PM   #18
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor
Posts: 4,035
Default

Copyright 1996 Associated Press AP Online
April 02, 1996; Tuesday 21:30 Eastern Time

SECTION: International news

LENGTH: 667 words

HEADLINE: 'Jesus' Casket Found In Israel AP-Jesus-Tomb

DATELINE: JERUSALEM

BODY: Deep in the warehouse of the Israel Antiquities Authority, on a dusty crowded shelf, is a box that is empty except for a great question that it holds.

The limestone box, catalogue No. 80.503, once contained human bones and is engraved in barely legible Hebrew: ''Jesus, son of Joseph.'' Officials allowed reporters to see it Tuesday, after researchers for the BBC stumbled on the ossuaries last month and speculated they may have been the caskets of Jesus Christ and his family.

The 2- by 1-foot box, called an ossuary, was found along with nine others including two bearing the names Mary and Joseph by Israeli archaeologists in a Jewish burial chamber in Jerusalem in 1980 and then packed away in the warehouse with hundreds of other caskets. The bones that were in the caskets were reburied.

The find ''will electrify the centuries-old debate: did Jesus' body really rise from the dead on Easter morning?'' BBC reporter Joan Bakewell wrote in The Sunday Times of London.

But Israeli archaeologists and Bible scholars said Tuesday that Christians have no reason to worry that one of the pillars of their faith Jesus' resurrection is about to crumble.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph were among the most common Jewish names in biblical times and that their appearance together in one place had little significance, they said.

Biblical scholar Father Jerome Murphy O'Connor of Jerusalem's Ecole Biblique said there was no way to prove that the ossuary had contained the bones of Christ.

But, he said, if such proof could be made, ''the consequences for the faith would be disastrous.''

The burial chamber was discovered in March 1980 during a salvage dig in the Armon Hanatziv area in southern Jerusalem before construction of a new neighborhood there.

Archaeologists found 10 ossuaries, bones included, in the underground central chamber and six niches, said archaeologist Zvi Greenhut of the Antiquities Authority.

Greenhut said the combination of the names Jesus, Mary and Joseph on the ossuaries did not prompt archaeologists at the time to probe further. ''The names are common names. There is nothing unique in the appearance of all names together,'' Greenhut said.

He said that among the about 1,000 ossuaries from biblical times unearthed in Jerusalem, six carry the inscription ''Yeshua,'' or Jesus. Of those, two are engraved with the words ''Jesus, son of Joseph.''

He said about 25 percent of the women's caskets bore some form of the name Mary and that Joseph was the second most common man's name of the period.

The BBC will screen its story on the ossuaries as part of its ''Heart of the Matter'' religious series on Easter Sunday.

Ray Bruce, director of the independent television company CCTV that produced the program, said a check of a catalogue of ossuaries found that the names appeared only once in that combination.
Peter Kirby is online now   Edit/Delete Message
Old 06-01-2003, 09:14 PM   #19
SLD
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 4,109
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Radcliffe Emerson
Actually, I was thinking of the James ossuary, sorry.
However, I've done searches for this other ossuary and have found absolutely NO information on any such ossuary even existing.

In fact, this link:

http://www.graal.co.uk/ossuary.html

states the disputed James ossuary is the earliest reference to a Jesus found.
So I don't find any evidence anywhere supporting the Joseph and Mary ossuary.
I looked for just "Joseph and Mary" in connection with ossuary also, and found nothing.
Not to embarass you too much Radcliffe, but uhh, that link does talk about the Jesus Ossuary. Perhaps you missed it. Check it again all the way to the bottom.

SLD
SLD is offline  
Old 06-02-2003, 09:48 AM   #20
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 4,183
Default Re: The historical jesus and his crucifixion

Quote:
Originally posted by EggplantTrent
Is it an established fact that the historical Jesus was crucified? And if so, what happened to his body. Someone is telling me that the fact that no one has found the historical Jesus' body is highly indicative that Jesus was ressurected.

His argument doesn't sit well with me, but I can't think of any way to refute it, because I don't know enough about the subject. Can anyone help me?

EggplantTrent
Well, since they haven't located the body of Jimmy Hoffa, I guess that proves he was ressurected, according to your friend's logic.

Hmmmm... come to think of it, I did see a guy working at a Burger King in Cincinatti in 1987 who looked just like Jimmy.
thebeave is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:08 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.