Happy Wonderer

Do I get a prize? I was off by a couple of days but here is the post that I was expecting. Keith, if you really want to claim victory you have to answer the arguments. (Sheez, I go away to do real work for a couple of days and look what happens!)

HW

NB, Saddam claims that he won the first Gulf war.

Brother Fred

Keith states:

"C.S. Lewis said, "If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning."

Let my explain this further. Either we live in a meaningless universe (in which nature 'just exists' and has no purpose at all), or we live in a universe that is filled with purpose and meaning.

Now, if it is all meaningless, how can we know it is? Can we understand the concept of meaning (or the lack of it) if meaning doesn't exist? How is that possible?"

He is using "meaning" in two different senses. In one sense he is using it as you would use "definition" , and in the other as you would use "Purpose". Evidently, he doesn't see this. But what else would you expect from fundie-logic?

Hence, it's a false dichotomy!

Principia

Dull? Try ignorant, close-minded, and self-righteous. After all, you just have to wonder what kind of person would come into an atheist board with active membership in the hundreds, lock on to the specific forum titled "Evolution/Creation," and spend a good amount of time defending his faith. Keith, I must say, didn't last nearly as long as some of the more infamous whack jobs in recent memory.

Abacus

I think you forgot something. Where's the reference to John 3:16 at the end? You want us all to get down on our knees now and accept Jesus, don't you? Because that's what the real purpose of this thread is, right?

Alix Nenuphar

Interesting. Are there indicators that the poster is... a 'driveway poster'? (Somehow, that doesn't seem right. I need more familiarity with the terminology.) Nature of arguments (or lack thereof)? Cited websites? Spelling (no, wait, that woudl rule me out)....

Is there a consistency of purpose in driveway posters? Or do they have varied motives?

Doubting Didymus

I feel sick. Why do I bother?

Principia

Dunno. You could give any one of these guys the benefit of the doubt, I guess. Personally, I welcome the temper-tantrum, storm-off-the-stage, give-the-last-sermon routines. At least there is closure. It's alos somewhat better than having to engage people who write endlessly per post, where there is a response for every sentence I wrote, and the responses are entirely without substance (except, of course, to tell me that I am in no uncertain terms wrong), and they just ... won't ... quit. Perhaps you know what I'm talking about, from your ARN encounters?

Dr Rick

You've demonstrated that you don't even understand the question that you've asked.

The only thing that you have shown so far is that you demand faith to defend your opinion.

Your meandering posts show obviously faith-based beliefs, no purpose beyond circular rationalization, and no logical connection to purpose.

The universe exists in a way that no sensible person can deny the lack of intelligent design. Every fact of nature directly or indirectly disproves the existence of gods.

When Keith was asked for evidence that his gods exist, he responded with evasive and angry replies.

All the objective evidence says "yes" no matter how loud or often the misinformed may say otherwise.

There is nothing circular about this assertion; it stands on the merits of the evidence and the fact that nothing objectively refutes it.

The overwhelming number of species that ever were are no longer in existence; therefore, your bizzare and erroneous interpretation of the evidence doesn't make any sense.



...except all of the available evidence.

Evolution comes about as a result of random mutations and natural selection; after acknowledging the critical importance and reality of the latter, you appear about to ignore it.

There's an irrational strawman on the horizon...



....and there it is.

After being gently, cautiously, and oh so carefully educated that evolution is not a random process, after Keith acknowledged that he knew it was not a random process, he simply "re-booted" and trotted-out the same lame and thoroughly demolished strawman argument.

We observe increasing order all around us. If we didn't, I couldn't make this post.

How pathetic; his irrelevant reasoning on natural selection and random mutations trashed, Keith brings up an even worse and even more tired argument based upon his misunderstanding of the Second Law of Termodynmamics (2LoT).

Nothing in the 2LoT prohibits or predicts decreasing order. Everywhere around us we see increasing order; without increasing order, I could not post and you could not read what I am typing right now.

Another serious problem for Keith's arguments is that he spews incessant nonsense: Mutations that confer reproductive advantages are occuring and observed frequently. There would be no antibiotic resistance without such mutations, there would be no pesticide-resistant insects without such mutations, there would be no sickle-cell anemia without such mutations, there would be no type ll diabetes without such mutations, there would no reason Keith couldn't successfully mate with a mouse without such mutations.

I don't wonder why Keith would post such nonsense; he has no evidence to support his faith, so he must either ignore reality or bullshit.

Keith would rather have us accept on faith alone the presumption that any single thing that is non-random is proof of intelligent design.

This was not even the best argument from ignorance ("we don't know or understand something, therefore, gods exist") posted on the IIDB.

The predictable theist victory dance we've seen before; his arguments shredded, his reasoning demolished, his defense mechanisms challenged to the point that no rational person could maintain them any longer, Keith retreats with an almost psychotic interpretation of how his fantasies have been pummelled into a pulp.

Rick

Doubting Didymus

Remind me never to be a teacher. I can't stand it when honest attempts at education fail so miserably. I'm going to take a short break from posting. I'll just read for a while.

Lobstrosity

Seriously, come on now. Even you can't be so ignorant as to not know that humans have, you know, actually watched crystals grow? They are not a product of intelligence in that God did not design them in their final state and simply place them there. Stupid, blind laws of physics we can calulate influence the growth to produce complex patterns. There's no faith involved. It's the same way with life. I'm amazed by your ability continually to achieve even greater levels of ignorance.

Your definition of "meaning" is a human concept. A HUMAN CONCEPT. Why can't you get this simple freaking idea through your thick skull? Meaning is something invented by humans. It is not a unversal entity. Humans can freely invent a concept and then say that something else doesn't possess it. For example, gravity is not angry. Hydrogen is rarely depressed. Try, you know, actually using your brain sometimes--you might actually enjoy it if you gave it a shot.