Worldtraveller

I gotta ask this, but feel free to not answer if you feel I'm prying.
How did you handle all of the big holidays/Santa Clause/Tooth fairy/Easter bunny kinda things? It seems like it would be very difficult to raise a child in the US that isn't inundated with these things, even if you carefully control what TV they watch.

Just curious, cheers,

Lane

CX

I grew in a liberal Xian family, but god and the supernatural were nonetheless simply accepted as foregone conclusions. It was a very long time after my deconversion that I stopped having those kinds of feelings. I did the "ask Jesus" thing from that little tract evangelicals hand out at the behest of my Father. I'd say little prayers. I'd have these flashes of emotions. All of this is what led me to really study Xian theology, history and the bible. It was THAT which nailed the coffin lid shut on my god feelings. Of course my parents are now born again and my dad is a minister and from their perspective, secular scholarship has "hardened my heart" or "blinded me" or something.

CX

Xmas has become totally secularized in the U.S. It is perfectly possible to celebrate it without religion intervening too much. That's something msot evangelicals rant about. As for stories related to those holidays, well the only one my son knows is the infancy narrative from GLk (who doesn't?) But to him it's basically just another fictional story. I asked him once about Jesus and he said, "I know it's all made up." This is not something I ever even suggested to him. I've never even discussed Jesus with him other than to vaguely explain he is part of what "Grammy" believes and what church is about. He came to that conclusion entirely on his own. My wife and I make it a point not to indoctrinate him with atheism.

PJPSYCO

Ah the holidays are easy. Only Halloween is actually Christian, and many churches condemn it. All of the other holidays are pagan. Easter is the celebration of feritility, and Christmas is actually the winter solstice. Presents are easy since someone giving you a present because they 'have to' is a really bad reason to give a present. So, anyone who suggests that you have to be forced to give people presents can easily be dealt with.

CX

Actually Hallowe'en is probably the MOST pagan. The Xians didn't have a holiday to coincide with the Celtic/Germanic festival of Samhain (pronounced "SOW' IN") so they decided to make up one for all the saints that didn't have feast days and celebrate it on November 1st calling it "All Hallows Day". Then once they got the pagans on board they invented a bunch satanic imagery and myth etc. to condemn Samhain and change it to "All Hallows Eve". Unfortunately most of the pagan trappings of Samhain remained.

ComestibleVenom

As I have grown in my understanding of epistemology, I have become increasingly confortable with the realization that God offers only illusionary explanatory power.

When I stopped believing in God, I began to realize that the "hole" left behind was a sign that I had been too willing to shrug off the big questions to God.

Is that really the way to find intellectual satisfaction? I think it's a cheap emotional thrill. We can do better, even if we step forth into the world fearfully and in ignorance.

The_Unknown_Banana

Where "All Hallow's day" actually means "All Saint's Day".

See here: http://people.howstuffworks.com/halloween.htm

theophilus

Well, there you go throwing that word "think" around like you've actually been doing it.

There is no "kink" in the theist argument, at least not Christianity, because there is no such argument.

For the record (and for your education) the statement of scripture (not a theist argument) is that "all men know God" because he is revealed through his creation and this knowledge is inescapable. Men, because they are in a state of active rebellion against God, supress this knowledge. The citation for this is Romans 1, verses 18 - 21.

Now, if you want to challenge that, be my guest, but don't continue to misrepresent what I, as a Christian, believe.

theophilus

There you go again, using meaningless expressions like "grown in my understanding," we can do better."

Growth is measured against some standard. In a non-theistic world, there is no standard for knowledge; the honest atheist will admit that his best "knowledge" is mere speculation and, therefore, meaningless.

In the same way, "do better" implies comparison which also requires a standard. Since, in a materialist world there can be no knowledge, there can be no knowledge of what is good, better, best, etc. There is merely existence about which you can make no authoritaive declarations.

So, congratulations on your escape from God.

theophilus

You're kidding yourself.
Not affirming God is denying him.
"He who does not gather with me scatters."