Ted Hoffman

This can be considered as a continuation of The Kata sarka site where Iasion translated Kata Sarka/ en sarki to mean "physically" Kirby provided many texts and authors who have used kata sarka in their works, in addition to Iasion's list. What was clear was that the meaning of the word could change depending on context. So I decided to retreat to the Bible and examine Paul's usage. I have revised the meaning from CK.Barrett's and Earl Doherty's "in the sphere of the flesh" to mean a sublunar realm. I am yet to address kata pneuma which might contradict what I propose here.
I will appreciate help from Kirby and anyone else good in Greek for the Greek Translations.
In Romans 1:3 The Online Greek Bible
translates to : Romans 1 :: King James Version (KJV)
This verse has been interpreted to mean that Jesus was born "physically". However, Pauls espousal of Jesus' Davinic/ Davidic descent is inconsistent with the idea that Jesus was born of the flesh by a virgin woman. It is also inconsistent with Pauls lack of direct mention of Mary, Joseph, Jesus' supposedly empty tomb and anything else that would be considered historical about Jesus. What then did Paul mean by "according to the flesh" or kata sarka in Greek?
Using the verses provided below, I argue that Paul meant "according to the spirit/promise" whenever he said KATA SARKA unlike according to the flesh is "in flesh". To Paul, at ones most unfaithful/skeptical, one was in the flesh/ of the flesh, but things/promises/prophecies were fulfilled "according to the flesh" but only for those who were NOT of the flesh.

Here he tells the Corinths that they are still of the flesh/infants in the spirit
1 Corinthians 3 :1-3 King James Version (KJV).
1 Corinthians 3: 1-3 The Online Greek Bible

Here he tells the Romans that those in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 8: 9 The Online Greek
Bible
Romans 8: 8-9 King James Version (KJV)

Here, he tells Romans not to be after unspiritual (fleshly) things.
1 Romans 8: 12 1 Romans 8: 12-13 Here he says Abraham had one child through faith (according to the flesh) while he had another in the flesh.
Galatians 4: 22 NASB

Here he says we are only Abrahams descendants by faith (according to the flesh/ by promise - check other versions) NOT in flesh ie if we dont beleive it, then we are NOT able to be his descendants through the promise.
Galatians 4: 22 Galatians 3: 29 Romans 4:1-2 Romans 1: 1-2 .

The flesh, in Pauls meaning was like a stage/status in spiritual growth, while at the same time those out of it could see/experience prophecies being fulfilled in that stage. Those who were unspiritual were in the flesh. Those who were spiritual did things, got ideas, experienced things "according to the flesh". For example, if God promised that I will have a huge library, I can have it according to the flesh. Those of you who cannot see the huge library are (stuck) in the flesh.
Its more like astral projection - you have to get out of your body then your spirit will see things from a spiritial viewpoint (according to the flesh) but before that, you are in flesh and can only see things in flesh.

What do you guys think?

[ August 19, 2002: Message edited by: Intensity ]

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Intensity ]

Philosophus

Could you make yourself a little more clear on your thesis?? I'm not sure I undestand what you mean...

Thanks,

Kosh

Neither did the Catholics, apparently.

Ted Hoffman

1. "according to" - refers to a viewpoint/ perspective or method - usually spiritual method. NOT reality. Like Abraham getting a kid without sleeping with his wife - he gets a kid according to the flesh. When you say "its impossible!", Paul responds, "he got a son according to the flesh"

2. "in the" - refers to a stage in spiritual growth.
"of the" - belonging to that stage. If one makes a woman pregnant, he gets a baby in the flesh through a means of the flesh/ after the flesh.

Thats as clear as I can get, thanks to Paul.