Amos

Was I in that trip to Europe by any chance? I guess not or you'd still love me.

Mad Kally

Of course you were Amos. I wouldn't go to Europe without you..

THE_LEGENDARY_HQB

Greetings Amie, hope you're not getting too offended on this thread!
Originally posted by Amie:
"I agree with this.

If someone asked me if I believed in saldfjag I would not say "no" I would say "what the hell is that?" then I could formulate an opinion."
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Ahhhhhh, but what if you couldn't get a clear definition of what a saldfjag was? What if you met people from the Church of the Risen Sadlfjag, The True Church of the Saldfjag, The Church of Saldfjag-Saldfjagist-With Signs & Wonders, and the Holy Roman Saldfjag Church, and each person had a different and often wildly variating definition of what one was, yet none of them could provide any solid evidence for its existence?

As an Atheist, I view the "God" concept as similar to this illustration. I have never gotten a coherent answer when I ask "what is God?" Therefore, after awhile, I simply throw up my hands and say "this is absurd, I see no reason to believe it".

So yes, I concur with Goliath 100%.

Respect,
Shon Hieronymus Q Blankenship {the Q stands for Flavius}, Esq.
Earl of Oranjestad.

Oxymoron

There is a finite yet very very very large permutation space of Things You Could Believe In. The vast bulk of the members of that space I, or any one individual will never know of in their lifetime. Is Amie really suggesting that everyone must define every single member of that set in order to not believe it, because if so, I'd better start now and don't wait up... Or is Amie saying she believes or doesn't believe in things she doesn't know exists?

It is so much easier to count the things you believe in than the ones you don't!

Goliath

hezekiah jones,

Again, no. I do not know what a saldfaghsad is, and I do not believe that a saldfaghsad exists (NOTE: I do not believe that a saldfaghsad does not exist, either).

So, I am a living counterexample to Amie's assertion that she keeps making over, and over, and over again.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

Infinity Lover,

Amie has stated that it is impossible for anyone to not believe that something exists if said thing is not well defined.

I then stated that I do not know what a sadlfjas is, and I do not believe that a sadlfjas exists.

This implies that her assertion is false.

Now, if you want me to prove that I actually hold no belief in the existence of a sadlfjas, then--unless you're telepathic--I know of no such way to do that (of course, this is why it is common and acceptable to take someone at their word when they say that they do or do not believe something).

Simple: Since I do not know what a saldfjag is, I cannot believe that a saldfjag exists (I hope you agree with me up to this point). Therefore I do not believe that a saldfjag exists.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I did *NOT* say that I believed that a saldfjag does not exist. There is--as I have pointed out numerous times in numerous threads--a universe of difference between believing that something does not exist, and not believing that something does exist.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

capnkirk,

Irrelevant. I didn't say that I wouldn't have to know what a saldfjag is to believe that a saldfjag exists, and I didn't say that I wouldn't have to know what a saldfjag is in order to believe that a saldfjag does not exist.

I did say that I do not need to know what a saldfjag is to not believe that a saldfjag exists.

Even if your scenario were true, I would be holding no incorrect beliefs, nor making any false assertions, since I did not (and do not) hold any belief regarding the existence of a saldfjag.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Philosoft

Goliath, I think hezekiah was having some sarcastic fun at Amie's expense.

In any case, from a strictly syntactical standpoint, the statement, "I don't believe X exists" where X is a non-concept, is not a coherent phrase because there isn't a defined indirect object. In practice, however, the above statement is rather noncontroversial - the intent of the speaker is pretty obvious.

Goliath

Novowels,

Regarding the existence of angels, you said:

Incorrect. I hold no belief regarding the existence of angels (or of anything else supernatural, for that matter).

Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

Philosoft,

Hmmmm, perhaps you're right. If this is the case, I apologize to hezekiah jones for the misunderstanding.

It is the logical negation of the proposition "I hold a belief that X exists." What is incoherent about it?

Sincerely,

Goliath