Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tronvillain · 03-23-2002, 06:15 PM

MeBeMe:

Quote:

In my experience, there are very few actual people who don't believe certain things are wrong simply because they're wrong, regardless of one's opinion. I doubt the majority of these people would say "yeah, well, i enjoy raping women, so that makes it right".

In my experience, there are quite a few actual people who don't believe certain things are wrong simply because they're wrong, regardless of their opinion. Saying that "it is wrong simply because it is wrong" appears to be nothing more than a strong opinion. Of course, I too doubt the majority of these people would say "Yeah, will, i enjoy raping women, so that makes it right" but I suspect many of us would admit that someone could say that. If someone enjoyed raping women, didn't feel bad for their victims, and wasn't worried about the consequences, rape would be "right" for them.

[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: tronvillain ]</p>

spin · 03-23-2002, 06:22 PM

tronvillain:
----------------
You try to make having no choice in the matter sound like a bad thing. It is not apparent that you have any more choice in the matter than me. Are you by any chance a proponent of the magical type of free will?
----------------

This is not my intention, tronvillain. I have indicated that we don't have much choice, but that I find it interesting (read, strange) that people are willing to squander what little choice we have by giving in to received and usually unanalysed dietary training.

spin · 03-23-2002, 06:28 PM

I will wait to hear these (...) comments from tronvillain after tronvillain has been raped, one way or another.

bonduca · 03-23-2002, 06:40 PM

spin, even from you, that is disgusting. Also, would you be so kind as to explain why you take exception to the spelling of my location? I will accept any effort you are willing to make at explanation, since, as you say, "pedantry is better than nothing."

spin · 03-23-2002, 06:49 PM

MeBeMe:
-------------------
Spin,
Not to be mean, but I would just give up. I mean, nothing anyone has said on here is anything new, interesting, or anything along those lines. I mean, the standard "oh, well we breed them for that purpose" is such a lame reason I'm surprised anyone would even put it up.
-------------------

Thanks for your comment, MeBeMe, and I would agree with much of what you've said. However, two points:

1) if one gives up on this, how will that anyone get any different ideas?

2) I don't think it is sufficient to propose an apparently innatist idea of morality.

tronvillain, one of our relative moralists ("moral subjectivists"), has some reason to complain about the problem in last point. If you both were walking along and saw someone being raped and you both said "how beautiful", where do we stand? (I wait to hear from tronvillain after s/he's had the experience to see whether s/he continues the rot.)

I didn't see much to indicate anything that I would call morailty in the slaying of a million people or more in Rwanda. The increased value placed on human life in "first-world countries" should eventually spill over into recognizing value in all life.

spin · 03-23-2002, 06:50 PM

spin, even from you, that is disgusting.
-------------------------

What are you referring to?

bonduca · 03-23-2002, 06:53 PM

I am referring to your remark to tron.

What about my other question?

tronvillain · 03-23-2002, 06:56 PM

spin:

Quote:

I will wait to hear these (...) comments from tronvillain after tronvillain has been raped, one way or another.

Those comments are correct regardless of how much I personally may dislike rape and rapists.

spin · 03-23-2002, 06:58 PM

Do you mean my response to this?
-----------------------
Of course, I too doubt the majority of these people would say "Yeah, will, i enjoy raping women, so that makes it right" but I suspect many of us would admit that someone could say that. If someone enjoyed raping women, didn't feel bad for their victims, and wasn't worried about the consequences, rape would be "right" for them.
-----------------------

I guess that's not disgusting though.

What other question? Although this thread is not ostensibly about my answering your questions, if you have something reasonable you want to know...

tronvillain · 03-23-2002, 07:00 PM

spin:

Quote:

This is not my intention, tronvillain. I have indicated that we don't have much choice, but that I find it interesting (read, strange) that people are willing to squander what little choice we have by giving in to received and usually unanalysed dietary training.

That's right, you're making a choice, I'm just giving in.

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03-23-2002, 06:22 PM	#322
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	tronvillain: ---------------- You try to make having no choice in the matter sound like a bad thing. It is not apparent that you have any more choice in the matter than me. Are you by any chance a proponent of the magical type of free will? ---------------- This is not my intention, tronvillain. I have indicated that we don't have much choice, but that I find it interesting (read, strange) that people are willing to squander what little choice we have by giving in to received and usually unanalysed dietary training.

03-23-2002, 06:28 PM	#323
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	I will wait to hear these (...) comments from tronvillain after tronvillain has been raped, one way or another.

03-23-2002, 06:40 PM	#324
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	spin, even from you, that is disgusting. Also, would you be so kind as to explain why you take exception to the spelling of my location? I will accept any effort you are willing to make at explanation, since, as you say, "pedantry is better than nothing."

03-23-2002, 06:49 PM	#325
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	MeBeMe: ------------------- Spin, Not to be mean, but I would just give up. I mean, nothing anyone has said on here is anything new, interesting, or anything along those lines. I mean, the standard "oh, well we breed them for that purpose" is such a lame reason I'm surprised anyone would even put it up. ------------------- Thanks for your comment, MeBeMe, and I would agree with much of what you've said. However, two points: 1) if one gives up on this, how will that anyone get any different ideas? 2) I don't think it is sufficient to propose an apparently innatist idea of morality. tronvillain, one of our relative moralists ("moral subjectivists"), has some reason to complain about the problem in last point. If you both were walking along and saw someone being raped and you both said "how beautiful", where do we stand? (I wait to hear from tronvillain after s/he's had the experience to see whether s/he continues the rot.) I didn't see much to indicate anything that I would call morailty in the slaying of a million people or more in Rwanda. The increased value placed on human life in "first-world countries" should eventually spill over into recognizing value in all life.

03-23-2002, 06:50 PM	#326
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	spin, even from you, that is disgusting. ------------------------- What are you referring to?

03-23-2002, 06:53 PM	#327
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	I am referring to your remark to tron. What about my other question?

03-23-2002, 06:58 PM	#329
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	Do you mean my response to this? ----------------------- Of course, I too doubt the majority of these people would say "Yeah, will, i enjoy raping women, so that makes it right" but I suspect many of us would admit that someone could say that. If someone enjoyed raping women, didn't feel bad for their victims, and wasn't worried about the consequences, rape would be "right" for them. ----------------------- I guess that's not disgusting though. What other question? Although this thread is not ostensibly about my answering your questions, if you have something reasonable you want to know...

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