Freethought & Rationalism Archive

moiii · 02-20-2002, 07:54 AM

Someone

Your definition of faith is questionable. God is detectable. We can see his effects on objects, and we can feel him. Is Atheism supported by logical proof or material evidence? There is no proof that God does not exist, and no material evidence either. Have you ever been “in love”? There is no logical explanation for love, but does love exist?

Dr. Retard · 02-20-2002, 08:00 AM

A wise man once said...

Quote:

People in this thread are employing different definitions of 'faith'. On some definitions, we all have faith. On others, only certain people do. On some, faith is reasonable. On others, faith is irrational.

moiii · 02-20-2002, 08:03 AM

I like that. What do you think about faith?

moiii · 02-20-2002, 08:07 AM

A young, stupid man once said:

No matter what one's definition of faith is, we all have faith.

sbaii · 02-20-2002, 08:16 AM

Your definition of faith is questionable. God is detectable. We can see his effects on objects, and we can feel him. Is Atheism supported by logical proof or material evidence? There is no proof that God does not exist, and no material evidence either. Have you ever been “in love”? There is no logical explanation for love, but does love exist?[/QB][/QUOTE]

==================================================
What are the Biblical truths supported by science or vice versa? SInce you mention the Bible it appears that your view of the world is based on the literature of a desert-dwelling prescientific people. Like the people who made fun of Darwin, you just don't like the idea that the cosmos may be the result of impersonal forces. You would rather have a magical father figure molding us from the earth with his magical hands. It certainly is easier to envision than quantum mechanics. But QM has math supporting it.
There can be no proof for a negative, i.e., the nonexistence of god. As for love, there are many definitions of it. WHich are you referring to?

Corona688 · 02-20-2002, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by moiii:
<strong>Corona

The effects of God are obvious as well.</strong>

Glad to see you're interested in a rational discussion, and aren't just trolling.

They ain't, mostly because he isn't there. And no, I don't have 'faith' in the absence of god; the question wouldn't even have come up if people didn't keep telling me an invisible sky-man exists. You want to show otherwise, we're going to need actual evidence, we're not about to take your word for it.

I agree there are two definitions of faith. One is the 'faith' used in everyday life, by science, etc. Our lives are run thru the interpretation of incomplete information, and we must have 'faith' that the small chunk of reality that we see is representative of the rest of it, i.e. gravity not only works in my little room, it works all over the planet. I don't know it for sure until I check it again, but there is enough evidence for it that witholding my belief in gravity would be silly.

Then there's the faith used by the religious devout. This really is belief without evidence in my opinion. If god was really so crystal clear as the faithful believe, then why are there thousands of different religions, and thousands of splinter factions in Christianity alone?

So many of them claim absolute truth, yet they can't all be right. Toss in the fact that god has never been reliably observed directly OR indirectly, and you see why I think they're ALL wrong, and god doesn't exist.

livius drusus · 02-20-2002, 08:22 AM

Moii - It's always nice to see a theist on the boards with a questioning mind and the staying power to maintain the conversation. Welcome to II.

Having said that, in this thread you are reiterating a range of questions which have been done to death. The definition of faith is being discussed in <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=56&t=000065" target="_blank">this thread</a> right now in the Philosophy forum and covers much of the same territory. Issues such as proving nonexistence, the (putative) difficulty of proving "love," the anti-scientific history of xianity and the (even more putative) scientific knowledge captured in the Bible have been discussed over and over again.

If you wish to bring them up yet again, please use the search function to see what has been covered recently and get at least a smattering of background from our perspective. Also, squeezing all these things into one thread does them no justice and will only serve to derail it until all that remains is one big nauseating hodgepodge of xian vs. infidel generica.

If, on the other hand, you are not here to debate and challenge us and yourself but only to deploy what you think are zingers and/or convert us, please restrict yourself to the Rants, Ravings, & Preaching forum. Thank you.

moiii · 02-20-2002, 08:22 AM

Sbaii

Agape love. Do you believe it exists?

moiii · 02-20-2002, 08:25 AM

I've got to go for now, but I'll be back later. I enjoy discussing these things. I don't intend to come across as being argumenative. Thanks. See ya later.

Mageth · 02-20-2002, 08:30 AM

We can see his effects on objects, and we can feel him.

To be correct, you should say "We can see effects on objects, and we can experience feelings. I choose, through my faith, to attribute those things to God." You have no evidence that God is the cause of those effects or feelings. Therefore your interpretation of the cause of those effects and feelings is based on faith.

As a strong atheist, I don't believe that god doesn't exist, I lack a belief in God. Do you understand the distinction? The latter takes no "faith." As someone else said, I think, it doesn't take "faith" to lack a belief. I also lack a belief in Santa Claus, Allah, and Vishnu, which things I assume you lack a belief in as well. Does it take "faith" for you to be atheistic about Vishnu, or asantaistic about St. Nick?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-20-2002, 07:54 AM	#11
moiii Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Work Posts: 23	Someone Your definition of faith is questionable. God is detectable. We can see his effects on objects, and we can feel him. Is Atheism supported by logical proof or material evidence? There is no proof that God does not exist, and no material evidence either. Have you ever been “in love”? There is no logical explanation for love, but does love exist?

02-20-2002, 08:03 AM	#13
moiii Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Work Posts: 23	I like that. What do you think about faith?

02-20-2002, 08:07 AM	#14
moiii Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Work Posts: 23	A young, stupid man once said: No matter what one's definition of faith is, we all have faith.

02-20-2002, 08:16 AM	#15
sbaii Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: big bad Deetroit Posts: 2,850	Your definition of faith is questionable. God is detectable. We can see his effects on objects, and we can feel him. Is Atheism supported by logical proof or material evidence? There is no proof that God does not exist, and no material evidence either. Have you ever been “in love”? There is no logical explanation for love, but does love exist?[/QB][/QUOTE] ================================================== What are the Biblical truths supported by science or vice versa? SInce you mention the Bible it appears that your view of the world is based on the literature of a desert-dwelling prescientific people. Like the people who made fun of Darwin, you just don't like the idea that the cosmos may be the result of impersonal forces. You would rather have a magical father figure molding us from the earth with his magical hands. It certainly is easier to envision than quantum mechanics. But QM has math supporting it. There can be no proof for a negative, i.e., the nonexistence of god. As for love, there are many definitions of it. WHich are you referring to?

02-20-2002, 08:22 AM	#17
livius drusus Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Selva Oscura Posts: 4,120	Moii - It's always nice to see a theist on the boards with a questioning mind and the staying power to maintain the conversation. Welcome to II. Having said that, in this thread you are reiterating a range of questions which have been done to death. The definition of faith is being discussed in <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=56&t=000065" target="_blank">this thread</a> right now in the Philosophy forum and covers much of the same territory. Issues such as proving nonexistence, the (putative) difficulty of proving "love," the anti-scientific history of xianity and the (even more putative) scientific knowledge captured in the Bible have been discussed over and over again. If you wish to bring them up yet again, please use the search function to see what has been covered recently and get at least a smattering of background from our perspective. Also, squeezing all these things into one thread does them no justice and will only serve to derail it until all that remains is one big nauseating hodgepodge of xian vs. infidel generica. If, on the other hand, you are not here to debate and challenge us and yourself but only to deploy what you think are zingers and/or convert us, please restrict yourself to the Rants, Ravings, & Preaching forum. Thank you.

02-20-2002, 08:25 AM	#19
moiii Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Work Posts: 23	I've got to go for now, but I'll be back later. I enjoy discussing these things. I don't intend to come across as being argumenative. Thanks. See ya later.

02-20-2002, 08:30 AM	#20
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	We can see his effects on objects, and we can feel him. To be correct, you should say "We can see effects on objects, and we can experience feelings. I choose, through my faith, to attribute those things to God." You have no evidence that God is the cause of those effects or feelings. Therefore your interpretation of the cause of those effects and feelings is based on faith. As a strong atheist, I don't believe that god doesn't exist, I lack a belief in God. Do you understand the distinction? The latter takes no "faith." As someone else said, I think, it doesn't take "faith" to lack a belief. I also lack a belief in Santa Claus, Allah, and Vishnu, which things I assume you lack a belief in as well. Does it take "faith" for you to be atheistic about Vishnu, or asantaistic about St. Nick?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.