Biff the unclean

Wrong ... you're not flying, the plane is.
If I'm not flying with it the FAA is going to be pissed.
It is not same as flying like a bird.
No bird could ever fly as fast or as high as I can.

You say there is no God, thus that means the problem is you.
How is the problem mine? I'm not lying and saying there is

I always like to see people who laugh ... the stronger they laugh, the deeper the hurt is sometimes.
What the Hell are you talking about? I'm not hurt, I'm fine.

Question was "Do you dare to find out now if you are mistaken?"
Sure. Let's hear where I went wrong. If you can come up with proof of the existence of God I'll believe again. If you can't you'll become an Atheist…is that fair?

In the end, you have nothing but information which in few generations could be reviewed by another generation and intrepreted in another form or into another meaning.
That's true. That's why we have discarded things from the past that proved to be wrong like a flat Earth, a Sun that goes around the Earth and God.

What I found out during my 30 years of living
You are younger than my children

2. Don't follow things in Religion which is contradicts to logic but believe in God because this is man-made error.

I choose door no. 2.
And all you have to do is produce a God and door 2 will make sense. As it stands now it's just a primitive superstition.

60% of all information you will receive comes from Seeing and Reading.
99.9+% of it I understand. That fraction of a percent that I do not I don't pretend that I understand by claiming some God did it. I accept that I don't understand it. It's called honesty.

Nope ... I'm still a human being and since I'm a human being, my knowledge and intelligence also effected by physical limitations.
And I don't remember boosting about anything.
Then if you are a human and I am a human and we both have human limitations where do you get a God from? Because if you are no better than me you don't see one either.

Oops ... misintrepretation here (mistake in my part). I supposed to say I sense your fear ... but then again, maybe the word "Sense" is not suitable in this discussion.
Listen son, this morning before I had my coffee I walked, alone, into the cage of a 325 pound low land gorilla who was in pain. I stuck my hand into her mouth and pulled out part of a toy that was stuck between her huge teeth. I'm not the timid sort. If I'm not afraid of flesh and blood gorillas your invisible boogeyman isn't going to bother me.

You seems to think that knowledge is all that matters in finding an answer. The thing is, it isn't.
Knowledge of the answer is what matters yes.

While two person could have same amount of data, how both of them intreprete that data is the key of find an answer.
That's one of the things that makes science science instead of faith. People check other peoples findings

For me, I believe I'm living in a world where there is more than meets the eye.
If it hasn't met your eye yet you can't claim to know it exists.

Seraphim

by Biff the unclean

If I'm not flying with it the FAA is going to be pissed.

If you don't fly it, someone else will ... so what's a big deal? Plane is plane. And you're still a ground-based lifeform.

No bird could ever fly as fast or as high as I can.
And you will NEVER be as free as a bird is free either.

How is the problem mine? I'm not lying and saying there is
No ... you're not lying to anyone, which is fine. Your opinion is yours. Problem is, you seems to be pushing your opinion into mine.

What the Hell are you talking about? I'm not hurt, I'm fine.
It's a metaphor and I was more like talking to myself than to you.

Sure. Let's hear where I went wrong. If you can come up with proof of the existence of God I'll believe again. If you can't you'll become an Atheist…is that fair?

You seems to be mistaken my purpose here.
1. I'm not here to convert anyone.
2. I'm not here to talk about Religion either.
3. I'm simply here because I'm representing my own opinion.

In that context, even if I could win, there is no need for you to believe since I never expect you to do so. I don't expect you to run to a Church or temple tomorrow and pray as token of my victory. So even if I win, your opinion will be yours to hold and I will receive this as experience to further strengthen my faith.

As for being Atheist ... not sure how to be one, so how could I promise I'll be something which I'm not sure how to be? They say Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in supernatural without proof YET I see and experienced plenty of things which could be my proof. How am I supposed to be an atheists when I accept this as proof?
You better choose another battle token in case you win.

That's true. That's why we have discarded things from the past that proved to be wrong like a flat Earth, a Sun that goes around the Earth and God.

If you believe that (what I said before) is true, then isn't it true also that there is a chance that a future generation will come up with a better defination of God than we could now?

Call it Hoping for a Miracle, or Hoping against Hope ... but to me, it is something worth holding on to.

You are younger than my children
I persumed that you or your children had face death three times in the past 30 years and lived to tell about it as well.

I persume also that you or your children lived life been called a freak for years simply because he or she had certain insight (ability to see things, sense things, know what other people thinking and feeling etc) as well.

And all you have to do is produce a God and door 2 will make sense. As it stands now it's just a primitive superstition.

Problem here is getting rid of man-made errors found in the books first. Humanity seems to be following words in the books more than their hearts. Get rid of this errors and God will pop up on His own.

99.9+% of it I understand. That fraction of a percent that I do not I don't pretend that I understand by claiming some God did it. I accept that I don't understand it. It's called honesty.

Good.

Then if you are a human and I am a human and we both have human limitations where do you get a God from? Because if you are no better than me you don't see one either.

Here comes the messy part ... the part where I will list down a long lists of subjects which I found suitable as evidence for belief in God (some of them are deeper than some could imagine so try not to laugh so fast) :

1. Buddhism and Hindusm principles for starters.
2. Modern day Gaia Theory (it has very close similarities with Shinto and Taoism which both made sense to me).
3. Chaos Theory.
4. Creations - Big Bangs etc.
5. And finally ... my own Hamster model

Being in the East, it is easier for me to be associated with this models which I found by Science with the traditional models found in my own society (as stated in the 1st two in the list).

OK ... you can start laughing now ...

Listen son, this morning before I had my coffee I walked, alone, into the cage of a 325 pound low land gorilla who was in pain. I stuck my hand into her mouth and pulled out part of a toy that was stuck between her huge teeth. I'm not the timid sort. If I'm not afraid of flesh and blood gorillas your invisible boogeyman isn't going to bother me.

OK then ... probably mistake from my side ... poor reception.

Knowledge of the answer is what matters yes.
OK

That's one of the things that makes science science instead of faith. People check other peoples findings

Here's a problem with Science ...
In term of comparing results, scientists usually pushed aside other important aspects needed in a comparison. Example : Accepting something is not fully understood for the time being with current result and further studies is required (not sure what short term is).

One example is Herbal medicine studies - Doctors and Scientists more concerned about synthesing drugs from plants without studying the relationship the body has with the sickness as well. Like in Yin Yang Principles. And when a drug doesn't work like it does with traditional practise, then they will label it as fraud or something like that.

I see that most scientists nowadays are more concerned about making a name for themselves, obtaining patterns for a products for their company or simply make a claim which could make them rich.

If it hasn't met your eye yet you can't claim to know it exists.

Because I could see with my heart ... I could feel the world around me and that is how I could claim that there is a world beyond what we can see.

Tell me something ... you're a pilot, right? When you're up there, do you feel that it is you who are the one flying or do you feel that it is the plane that is flying and you're just a passenger, enjoying the view?

Nowhere357

Hi Hinduwoman.

Your post indicates two things to me: religious myths evolve (like everything else, I guess); and if we want to find the truth about reality, we need to stop assuming these myths are in any way literal.

I'm not familiar with hinduism, but imo Christianity does itself no credit by claiming that Biblical myths are actually "truth".

Biff the unclean

And you will NEVER be as free as a bird is free either.
Is this going anywhere or are you just setting the mood?

You seems to be mistaken my purpose here.
1. I'm not here to convert anyone.
Good, then maybe we can help you throw off your religion.
2. I'm not here to talk about Religion either.
3.I'm simply here because I'm representing my own opinion.
This section of the site is called General Religious Discussions It seems an odd place to come if you didn't want to discuss religion.

In that context, even if I could win, there is no need for you to believe since I never expect you to do so.
I'm a scientist. If you can present evidence that I am mistaken in my conclusions about anything I will change them.
So even if I win, your opinion will be yours to hold and I will receive this as experience to further strengthen my faith.
No, if I were to be an honest man and you presented me with proof (evidence) of the existence of a God then I would have to believe in one. Just as lacking any sort of proof I must be honest and lack any sort of belief.

As for being Atheist ... not sure how to be one, so how could I promise I'll be something which I'm not sure how to be?
You have to be as honest as you possibly be. You can't claim that you know things you really don't know.
They say Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in supernatural without proof YET I see and experienced plenty of things which could be my proof.
We are talking actual evidence here, not your emotions.

If you believe that (what I said before) is true, then isn't it true also that there is a chance that a future generation will come up with a better defination of God than we could now?
Why would you think that future generations would be less advanced than the present one? Why would they abandon knowledge and revert to primitive superstitions?

Call it Hoping for a Miracle, or Hoping against Hope ... but to me, it is something worth holding on to.
Hope for a miracle all you like, but don't pretend that you already have had one.

I persumed that you or your children had face death three times in the past 30 years and lived to tell about it as well.
My son is a narcotics cop in Manhattan north, my daughter worked in the north tower of the World Trade Center and I'm just got back from dealing with poachers in the African rain forest. You ain't got nothing on us.

I persume also that you or your children lived life been called a freak for years simply because he or she had certain insight (ability to see things, sense things, know what other people thinking and feeling etc) as well.
Ah, yes I had guessed that people were laughing at you. No, no one has ever called my kids or myself freaks because we suffered from delusions. People tend to show us a great deal of respect.

Problem here is getting rid of man-made errors found in the books first.
No, the problem is getting rid of the man made Gods and Devils, the books are fine.
Humanity seems to be following words in the books more than their hearts. Get rid of this errors and God will pop up on His own. It's called education. It's one of the reasons you can expect your children to have life spans more than twice as long as your great grand parents. Magic doesn't work, it's a fake.

Here comes the messy part ... the part where I will list down a long lists of subjects which I found suitable as evidence for belief in God (some of them are deeper than some could imagine so try not to laugh so fast) :

1. Buddhism and Hindusm principles for starters.
2. Modern day Gaia Theory (it has very close similarities with Shinto and Taoism which both made sense to me).
3. Chaos Theory.
4. Creations - Big Bangs etc.
5. And finally ... my own Hamster model

And why are each one of these man-made things evidence of a God?
Being in the East, it is easier for me to be associated with this models which I found by Science with the traditional models found in my own society (as stated in the 1st two in the list).

OK ... you can start laughing now ...
No I've been all over the East. My first job out of college was killing North Vietnamese. I am well aware that magical thinking is a plague on the area.

Here's a problem with Science ...
In term of comparing results, scientists usually pushed aside other important aspects needed in a comparison. Example : Accepting something is not fully understood for the time being with current result and further studies is required (not sure what short term is).
When Scientists do that we do not turn around and claim that we do know it. We keep working until we find the actual answer. We don't pick an answer out of the air because we "feel" like it, that wouldn't make any sense.

One example is Herbal medicine studies - Doctors and Scientists more concerned about synthesing drugs from plants without studying the relationship the body has with the sickness as well.
That's simply not true.
And when a drug doesn't work like it does with traditional practise, then they will label it as fraud or something like that.
Because they are frauds. Traditional medicine is based mostly on the placebo effect, which means that if a person thinks the medicine will make the better they will start to feel better anyway. Also if they think the medicine will have side effects they will start to show them. Here in the West we test these drugs on people giving part of the test group pills that are made of sugar. People sometimes get better because they think the sugar is the medicine.
Most of the time your body will get better by itself. If you take "traditional" medicine and it doesn't kill you out right you'll probably get better anyway despite taking it but not because of taking it.
The herbal medicines that are labeled as frauds have been tested and they don't really work. They ARE frauds.

I see that most scientists nowadays are more concerned about making a name for themselves, obtaining patterns for a products for their company or simply make a claim which could make them rich.
And what scientists do you know, that you can say MOST are like that? Why does science frighten you so?

Because I could see with my heart ... I could feel the world around me and that is how I could claim that there is a world beyond what we can see.
And that is why you are getting mocked and called a freak. Because you aren't separating what you imagine from what is real. It's usually a problem children out grow. When it happens in an adult it can be a symptom that something is wrong. It wouldn't be a bad idea to take to a doctor (a real one, not traditional medicine) about this.

Tell me something ... you're a pilot, right?
Amateur
When you're up there, do you feel that it is you who are the one flying or do you feel that it is the plane that is flying and you're just a passenger, enjoying the view?
It is definitely me that is doing the flying, using the plane as an extension of my body. It's a type of flying you do in little twin seaters called "seat of your pants" flying. Because you feel what the plane is experiencing through your legs and butt.
Nothing magic or supernatural about it in the least. But a lot of fun.

Seraphim

by Biff the unclean

Sorry for the late reply, having problem with the network ... can see the forum but cannot reply properly. Doing it with brother's notebook now.

Is this going anywhere or are you just setting the mood?
No ... just stating your limitations as human.

Good, then maybe we can help you throw off your religion.
I'm very happy where I am now, Thank You.

This section of the site is called General Religious Discussions It seems an odd place to come if you didn't want to discuss religion.

That's not my purpose of being here, I came here to read Hinduwoman's post of status of India's spiritua trend, not to fight needlessly.

I'm a scientist. If you can present evidence that I am mistaken in my conclusions about anything I will change them.
So even if I win, your opinion will be yours to hold and I will receive this as experience to further strengthen my faith.
No, if I were to be an honest man and you presented me with proof (evidence) of the existence of a God then I would have to believe in one. Just as lacking any sort of proof I must be honest and lack any sort of belief.

Up to you how you want to take it. I don't care either way.

You have to be as honest as you possibly be. You can't claim that you know things you really don't know.
I will remember that.

We are talking actual evidence here, not your emotions.
To you, it maybe different, to me it is not.

Why would you think that future generations would be less advanced than the present one? Why would they abandon knowledge and revert to primitive superstitions?

Because that's the limitation of Human race. Your science will never fullfill their needs - physical, mental or spiritual ones. That is the limitation of your Science as well.

Hope for a miracle all you like, but don't pretend that you already have had one.
That is useless for either of us to talk about it. Future generations can settle this on their own time.

My son is a narcotics cop in Manhattan north, my daughter worked in the north tower of the World Trade Center and I'm just got back from dealing with poachers in the African rain forest. You ain't got nothing on us.

Sorry, you didn't answer my question. I asked you whether you or your sons face death - to the point where your sensors ceast to function for a moment and only thing you have is your consciousness. Well?

Ah, yes I had guessed that people were laughing at you. No, no one has ever called my kids or myself freaks because we suffered from delusions. People tend to show us a great deal of respect.

Respect? HAHAHAHA ...

No, the problem is getting rid of the man made Gods and Devils, the books are fine.

Only as fine as the person who is reading it ...

It's called education. It's one of the reasons you can expect your children to have life spans more than twice as long as your great grand parents. Magic doesn't work, it's a fake.

And what Scientific techniques do you use to show that your kids will live longer than you could?

And why are each one of these man-made things evidence of a God?

You call yourself a Scientist, didn't you? Do you have problem about what I wrote?

No I've been all over the East. My first job out of college was killing North Vietnamese. I am well aware that magical thinking is a plague on the area.

Had fun killing off fellow humans?
Read their history and you will see the example of the society and how this people built such society while your forefather still crawling in a cave somewhere.

When Scientists do that we do not turn around and claim that we do know it. We keep working until we find the actual answer. We don't pick an answer out of the air because we "feel" like it, that wouldn't make any sense.

Wrong ... you only play by your rules and call others to be useless because they don't play by your rules.

Most of the time your body will get better by itself. If you take "traditional" medicine and it doesn't kill you out right you'll probably get better anyway despite taking it but not because of taking it.
The herbal medicines that are labeled as frauds have been tested and they don't really work. They ARE frauds.

Fraud huh? Is that why your phamacy companies sending goons into forest like in South America, Africa etc to find new cure, only to synthesis a drug which hits the market for billions of dollars, which by the way, don't go one bit to the people which they took it from? The term theif suits your scientists better.

Wrong, I'm not afraid of Science, I'm afraid of people like you who thinks you know everything. People like you attend to keep other from thinking for themselves and in the end, the future generation end up unable to think for themselves.

And that is why you are getting mocked and called a freak. Because you aren't separating what you imagine from what is real. It's usually a problem children out grow. When it happens in an adult it can be a symptom that something is wrong. It wouldn't be a bad idea to take to a doctor (a real one, not traditional medicine) about this.

Better be a freak then someone who refuse to accept what he is. I stop running away and accept what I'm a long time ago.

When you're up there, do you feel that it is you who are the one flying or do you feel that it is the plane that is flying and you're just a passenger, enjoying the view?
It is definitely me that is doing the flying, using the plane as an extension of my body. It's a type of flying you do in little twin seaters called "seat of your pants" flying. Because you feel what the plane is experiencing through your legs and butt.
Nothing magic or supernatural about it in the least. But a lot of fun.

Mind showing me some Scientifics explaination on how this flying by the seat of your pants occurs?

Biff the unclean

No ... just stating your limitations as human.
How kind of you to do so. Theists on this site already provide this service.
Some how it's supposed to make me think that whatever evil spirit they are trying to sell has less limitations than I do. But the effect it actually has that it reminds me that they are human too. It reminds me that they have exactly the same limitations that I do. So if I can't see a God it means that they can't either.

I'm very happy where I am now, Thank You.
You fooled me. It sounds like people are mocking you because you don't have a firm grip on reality

Up to you how you want to take it. I don't care either way.
Then odd that you should even bring it up

(B)We are talking actual evidence here, not your emotions.
(S)To you, it maybe different, to me it is not.
Surely you must understand that the existence of entities is completely independent of any desire you might have for the to exist

Because that's the limitation of Human race. Your science will never fullfill their needs - physical, mental or spiritual ones. That is the limitation of your Science as well.
But your mumbo-jumbo doesn't actually fulfill any needs. Unless of course you consider lying to yourself to be a need.
I'm glad you were able to borrow your brothers laptop to tell us, around the world, how science doesn't work.

Future generations can settle this on their own time.
Might I point out that this contradicts what you already have said. You are already assuming that since your superstitions have been false for thousands of years, and are false today that in the future they will be true.

Sorry, you didn't answer my question. I asked you whether you or your sons face death - to the point where your sensors ceast to function for a moment and only thing you have is your consciousness. Well?
Have we faced death? Yes.
Have our brains been deprived of oxygen long enough to do damage? No.

(B)No, the problem is getting rid of the man made Gods and Devils, the books are fine.

(S)Only as fine as the person who is reading it ...
So often when I discuss religion with a person their own self loathing becomes an issue. Loathing of self, and mankind for that matter, oozes to the surface. That's why I prefer to associate with Atheists, they have a much pleasanter view of the world

And what Scientific techniques do you use to show that your kids will live longer than you could?
They average life expectancy for their generation is in the high 70's. A few hundred years ago they could expect to make it to around 30. The branch of science most responsible for this is plumbing.

call yourself a Scientist, didn't you?
That's what it says on my income tax return
Do you have problem about what I wrote?
Sure, nothing you wrote is proof of a god at all

Had fun killing off fellow humans?
Careful sonny.
Read their history and you will see the example of the society and how this people built such society while your forefather still crawling in a cave somewhere.
Nice boast. But what happened to this wonderful society? Where did it go? I'll tell you because I have read their history (I thought you were opposed to books? Please make up your mind) they became engulfed by religion and their society rotted and collapsed. Today through Asia you have nothing but an imitation of the scientific society of the Western cavemen. Once upon a time you guys were hot stuff, but today? Oh well, sit back and enjoy a Coke and don't worry about it.

Wrong ... you only play by your rules and call others to be useless because they don't play by your rules.
The rule we play by is called "HONESTY"

Fraud huh? Is that why your phamacy companies sending goons into forest like in South America, Africa etc to find new cure, only to synthesis a drug which hits the market for billions of dollars, which by the way, don't go one bit to the people which they took it from? The term theif suits your scientists better.
Spare me your persecution complex. Fraud is when your folk medicines are tested and found not to work. Killing off all the rhinos in the world to grind their horns into a powder to give you a "hard on" is what I call fraud

Wrong, I'm not afraid of Science, I'm afraid of people like you who thinks you know everything.
Funny you should say that because in this thread it is you who are claiming esoteric knowledge that the rest of us don't have, not me.

People like you attend to keep other from thinking for themselves and in the end, the future generation end up unable to think for themselves.
So you are saying that the shackles of honesty are too restricting for you.

Better be a freak then someone who refuse to accept what he is. I stop running away and accept what I'm a long time ago.
There there, there there…you are letting your emotions get the better of you….AGAIN

Mind showing me some Scientifics explaination on how this flying by the seat of your pants occurs?
No big deal. The nerves in your feet, legs and butt feel the vibrations of the semi rigid body of the light plane. They transmit that information to your brain. The light plane becomes in effect an extension of you. Because of it's small size it is easy to sense where each vibration is coming from. A lot like a motorcycle.

hinduwoman

Came across something even better when pursuing this. In 18th century Muslims lost final vestiges of power in Maharasthra and Hindu rule became firmly established. During this period a Muslim preacher came to prominence. He knew nothing other than Hindu supremacy. He taught that Adam worshipped Vishnu While Karfav worshipped Shiva. From Adam came muslims and Kaffirs from Karfav. Hindu-muslim enmity thus is only a quarrel among Hindus themselves.
amazing how religious myths change when power equations alter.

Seraphim

by Biff the unclean

How kind of you to do so. Theists on this site already provide this service.
Some how it's supposed to make me think that whatever evil spirit they are trying to sell has less limitations than I do. But the effect it actually has that it reminds me that they are human too. It reminds me that they have exactly the same limitations that I do. So if I can't see a God it means that they can't either.

Is that what you think being theist is all about? Fooling yourself that you will escape your limitations of being a human when you become a theist?

You fooled me. It sounds like people are mocking you because you don't have a firm grip on reality
Wrong ... they mock me because they have to firm grip of their own reality. Like all humans, atheist and theist alike, they expect others to give them answers.

Then odd that you should even bring it up
I didn't ... you did. Why should I bother about how you take something in life?

Surely you must understand that the existence of entities is completely independent of any desire you might have for the to exist
Mind explaining? I don't understand what you meant.

But your mumbo-jumbo doesn't actually fulfill any needs. Unless of course you consider lying to yourself to be a need.
I'm glad you were able to borrow your brothers laptop to tell us, around the world, how science doesn't work.

Wrong again. Can you be sure that your science will stop the future generations from wondering about spiritualism?
And wrong again ... I never said Science never worked, I just said that it alone is not enough to fullfill the needs of humanity.

Might I point out that this contradicts what you already have said. You are already assuming that since your superstitions have been false for thousands of years, and are false today that in the future they will be true.

Wrong ... I said that the future generation may have better defination of what we discussing now OR they may say that it is false like you claims. Either way, that is for them to decide.

Have we faced death? Yes.
Have our brains been deprived of oxygen long enough to do damage? No.
Thank You. Well ... I guess you have to wait till that moment to see whether there is a consciousness or not.

So often when I discuss religion with a person their own self loathing becomes an issue. Loathing of self, and mankind for that matter, oozes to the surface. That's why I prefer to associate with Atheists, they have a much pleasanter view of the world

Oh well ... maybe you can find some good ones some days ... OR maybe you should modify your approach as well.

They average life expectancy for their generation is in the high 70's. A few hundred years ago they could expect to make it to around 30. The branch of science most responsible for this is plumbing.

Sorry ... this is just a theory. You assume that your kids will live longer but you have no proof that even you will live another day. Guess what, Death doesn't need invitations when he comes for you. And you were saying that I was living in self-delusion.

That's what it says on my income tax return
Do you have problem about what I wrote?
Sure, nothing you wrote is proof of a god at all

Why don't we try discussing it first before making such assumption?

Careful sonny.
What's wrong? Don't wish to face your past?

Nice boast. But what happened to this wonderful society? Where did it go? I'll tell you because I have read their history (I thought you were opposed to books? Please make up your mind) they became engulfed by religion and their society rotted and collapsed. Today through Asia you have nothing but an imitation of the scientific society of the Western cavemen. Once upon a time you guys were hot stuff, but today? Oh well, sit back and enjoy a Coke and don't worry about it.

I believe they were occupied by barbarians from the West some 1,000 years ago to the point that generation now don't know their history, culture and the wisdom of their forefathers.

The rule we play by is called "HONESTY"
Honest to your opinions and not theirs? You don't seems to have problem stepping on other people's beliefs as long as fits onto your rule of honesty.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The scientific method is nothing more than a system of rules to keep us from lying to each other."----Ken Norris
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cute statement ...

Spare me your persecution complex. Fraud is when your folk medicines are tested and found not to work. Killing off all the rhinos in the world to grind their horns into a powder to give you a "hard on" is what I call fraud

And what do you call stealing from natives from states like South America, Africa and Asian? Act of bring truth to arrogant people? I believe that what the missionaries from Christian countries used when they invaded other societies.

Funny you should say that because in this thread it is you who are claiming esoteric knowledge that the rest of us don't have, not me.

Funny also how you not willing to debate with my proof of God and yet claim it doesn't provide one.

So you are saying that the shackles of honesty are too restricting for you.
I'm saying that you have no right to say what is true and what is not. Let the future generation decide what is true and what is not.

There there, there there…you are letting your emotions get the better of you….AGAIN
Wrong ... one of the thing I receive from accepting my "freakness" is that I had reduce my emotions to that of basics ones, in another word ... I don't get emotionally unbalance like most humans.

No big deal. The nerves in your feet, legs and butt feel the vibrations of the semi rigid body of the light plane. They transmit that information to your brain. The light plane becomes in effect an extension of you. Because of it's small size it is easy to sense where each vibration is coming from. A lot like a motorcycle.

And I persume you have some links to back this up.

Biff the unclean

Is that what you think being theist is all about? Fooling yourself that you will escape your limitations of being a human when you become a theist?
You mean like fooling yourself into thinking that you are going to have a swell time after you are dead and cremated? Yes.

Wrong ... they mock me because they have to firm grip of their own reality.
Mmmm…I hate to bring this up. But; there is only one reality. If you think you have a separate one, then you are experiencing a problem…a big problem.

Like all humans, atheist and theist alike, they expect others to give them answers.
That's right, what's wrong with that? You don't have to "reinvent the wheel yourself." Other people have information that they can share.

(B)Surely you must understand that the existence of entities is completely independent of any desire you might have for the to exist
(S) Mind explaining? I don't understand what you meant.
Your desires, your wants, your emotions have no impact on whether something exists or not. It doesn't matter how in touch with your emotions you are, nor how much you want something to exist. It either exists or it does not exist. Your personal feelings are not an indication of anything's existence other than the feelings themselves.

Can you be sure that your science will stop the future generations from wondering about spiritualism?
I certainly hope so. If Europe is any indicator then I would say yes.

I never said Science never worked, I just said that it alone is not enough to fullfill the needs of humanity.
Spiritualism can't actually "Fulfill" anything because it is based on lies.

I said that the future generation may have better defination of what we discussing now OR they may say that it is false like you claims. Either way, that is for them to decide.
Future generations will find it hard to believe that conversations like this ever took place. They will look at their past when there were such things as religions and be slightly embarrassed. Much like when we look at the past and are amused and embarrassed to think that our forebears thought the world was flat.

You assume that your kids will live longer but you have no proof that even you will live another day. Guess what, Death doesn't need invitations when he comes for you. And you were saying that I was living in self-delusion.
In this personal reality of yours, do you find the topic shifting constantly? I'm talking about average life expectancies…statistics. Not Bogeymen

(B) Careful sonny.
(S) What's wrong? Don't wish to face your past?
My past is just fine thank you. Your lack of manners is not.

I believe they were occupied by barbarians from the West some 1,000 years ago to the point that generation now don't know their history, culture and the wisdom of their forefathers.
How odd that "cave men" were able to do that

Honest to your opinions and not theirs? You don't seems to have problem stepping on other people's beliefs as long as fits onto your rule of honesty.
How common is this complaint, wa, wa, wa, you don't respect my beliefs. That's right I don't. I don't because they are based on ignorance and superstition and they are degrading to humankind. They do not deserve respect, they are baloney.
But of course you could always prove me wrong. You could show me how they are beneficial and based on fact and not baloney.
You could; but I doubt that you will.
You want respect for your beliefs then show that they deserve it.


Cute statement ...
Ken is a top dolphin researcher and a very funny guy.

And what do you call stealing from natives from states like South America, Africa and Asian?
Vague accusations are meaningless. What the hell are you talking about. Has your reality shifted again?

Funny also how you not willing to debate with my proof of God and yet claim it doesn't provide one.
There's nothing to debate, you gave me a list of manmade things and when asked what they had to do with any Gods you didn't answer.

I'm saying that you have no right to say what is true and what is not. Let the future generation decide what is true and what is not.
I am the future generation compared with those primitives who invented this mumbo jumbo. We here in the future know it is baloney.

Wrong ... one of the thing I receive from accepting my "freakness" is that I had reduce my emotions to that of basics ones, in another word ... I don't get emotionally unbalance like most humans.
Your writing doesn't show this Oh Zen Master.

And I persume you have some links to back this up
Why do you need a link? You just had a pilot tell you what the expression "seat of your pants flying" means. Have you never flown in a light plane or ridden on a motorcycle? Get in touch with your emotions maybe they will give you a link

Seraphim

by Biff the unclean

Feelings..whoa, oh, oh...Feeeeeelings
Take it or leave it, your choice.

You mean like fooling yourself into thinking that you are going to have a swell time after you are dead and cremated? Yes.
If that is true, that is is true also that you are fooling yourselves in thinking that you know everything.

Mmmm…I hate to bring this up. But; there is only one reality. If you think you have a separate one, then you are experiencing a problem…a big problem.
You're going to define my existence?

That's right, what's wrong with that? You don't have to "reinvent the wheel yourself." Other people have information that they can share.
Just as you don't want theists to push their definations of existence down your throat, it is advicable that you don't force your views down our throats as well.

Your desires, your wants, your emotions have no impact on whether something exists or not. It doesn't matter how in touch with your emotions you are, nor how much you want something to exist. It either exists or it does not exist. Your personal feelings are not an indication of anything's existence other than the feelings themselves.

And you based this explanations on what?

I certainly hope so. If Europe is any indicator then I would say yes.
Free sex, abortion, people who cannot think straight, people who goes to other countries and steal from poor people and so on ...
IF this is the future, the all I could say is that Humanity is screwed.

Spiritualism can't actually "Fulfill" anything because it is based on lies.
That is up to the future generations to consider and decide, NOT for you to push your opinion down their throats.

Future generations will find it hard to believe that conversations like this ever took place. They will look at their past when there were such things as religions and be slightly embarrassed. Much like when we look at the past and are amused and embarrassed to think that our forebears thought the world was flat.

Your forefathers thought the world was flat because the land they see in front of them were flat as well. They define their world based on their views and their assumptions. You want to hold that against them?

In this personal reality of yours, do you find the topic shifting constantly? I'm talking about average life expectancies…statistics. Not Bogeymen
Wrong ... your statics doesn't prove anything, and you are fooling yourself in think that it does. No man have ability to foresee his death, and THAT is reality. Take it or leave it.

My past is just fine thank you. Your lack of manners is not.
Hmph ... what does my manner have to do with your past?

How odd that "cave men" were able to do that
Nothing odd about it. Actually is it very logical. Eastern forefathers were more in peaceful in living while those barbarians were well-equiped in art of war. Everyone can kill, bub ... not everyone can live properly or inspire others.

How common is this complaint, wa, wa, wa, you don't respect my beliefs. That's right I don't. I don't because they are based on ignorance and superstition and they are degrading to humankind. They do not deserve respect, they are baloney.

And you appointed you as humanity's laws? Leave it to them to decide and mind your own society.

But of course you could always prove me wrong. You could show me how they are beneficial and based on fact and not baloney.
You could; but I doubt that you will.
You want respect for your beliefs then show that they deserve it.
And who said I or my society needs your respect?

Ken is a top dolphin researcher and a very funny guy.
I guess he must have thought himself to be smart just because he managed to get some fish to jump through hops.

Vague accusations are meaningless. What the hell are you talking about. Has your reality shifted again?
It is a fact that your scientists coming to the forest like the South America, Africa or Asian rainforest to steal from there. And that is an act of stealing from others.

There's nothing to debate, you gave me a list of manmade things and when asked what they had to do with any Gods you didn't answer.
Nothing to debate? Is that how you become a Scientist? By debating on topic which you like?

I am the future generation compared with those primitives who invented this mumbo jumbo. We here in the future know it is baloney.
Really? To me, you just another cave man who learn to read books.
I will defend my children's rights to think for themselves. You don't need to take that rights away from them.

Your writing doesn't show this Oh Zen Master.
HAHAHAHAHA ... you are not worthy to judge me.

Why do you need a link? You just had a pilot tell you what the expression "seat of your pants flying" means. Have you never flown in a light plane or ridden on a motorcycle? Get in touch with your emotions maybe they will give you a link

I wanted some link because your assumption that this experience is based on your body being an extension of the plant or the motorbike. How could a human being part of anything machinery and non-living thing?

Illogical, so I asked for a link or something. Again, like you said above, your emotions isn't important, what is important is facts. So prove it.